EVE General Discussion

Inflation Is big problem in every online game espetialy hardcore long therm MMO, in fact longer mmo exist biger inflation hit players and markets, you guys forget about one thing, EVE is almost 10 year old no wonder we have big inflation.

ISK are to easy to make but on other way we need big isk incomes because we need pvp ships, can you imagine one month grind and farm to get one t2 ship for average 180 mil for hull and fit ? while player can lose it in 5sec to gate blob...

Stop making sense.

I just abandoned null in favor of hi sec incursions.
Hi sec players are new breed of overlords that wins game by whining, deal with it.

You can not ignore the "goods perspective" while talking about inflation. Monetary inflation is a function of the supply of currency vs the total productivity(goods) in an economy. Which is the whole point I keep trying to get people to understand. If productivity raises to match the increased rate of currency accumulation then you won't have price inflation at all.

You are ignoring half the ******* economic equation with your assumptions, you are also working on this false rational actor nonsense. People spend money because they need stuff. As long as they need stuff they will buy ****. If prices raise relative to their income they won't start spending at a higher rate because they won't be able afford it. Hell we can't reach a universal understanding of what inflation is how the hell do you think perceptions are going to have a greater increase on prices than supply? The same people crying today about inflation and an over abundance of isk faucets were crying about inflation back when they wanted L4's and insurance nerfed and prices were steadily dropping.

This is why we're getting all these rationalizations of why we're not seeing the evidence that monetary inflation would create.

There is a logical concept known as Occam's Razor which is a core concept in science, Occam's Razor states that between two competing hypothesis the one that makes the fewer assumptions is most likely correct

Go look at the graph Liang posted. That' ain't monetary inflation that's price volatility due to fluctuations in supply and demand of goods. Those big spikes those are most likely speculative bubbles. The price increases that everyone is pointing to now are sudden and coincide with two huge null sec conflicts that affect two of most influential supply inputs in the economy

DRF war disrupting mineral supply and the war in the North messing with Tech, you just don't need any more explanation beyond that. particularly when the expected manifestations had not materialized previously

I am doubly suspicious of the Chicken Little's for the most part we're looking at the usual suspects who just seem to be more concerned about people being able to get out and earn a little isk by doing what they consider "low risk" activities. Inflation just seems to be their preferred red herring.

Notice the targets, L4's, insurance, null anoms, incursions. Always focused on outliers and the extremely successful cases while ignoring the common.

L4's where their first boogie man, "OMG blitzing missions leads to MAD INFLATION" of course at the time there was no inflation and to buy the argument you had to also ignore that the bulk of the income they were trying to attribute to mission running was actually trade and LP related

Then insurance, "OMG people can prop up the mineral market and get free isk by insurance fraud" ignoring the fact insurance fraud made for a great balancing mechanic for an oversupply abundance of minerals as well as the effect it had on general risk aversion and of course missing the fact that insurance fraudsters were a very small percentage of the beneficiaries of the system.

This line of reasoning repeats itself for anom's and now for incursions.

Inflation is a handy boogieman because most people (including many supposed economist) have a very simplistic (inaccurate) understanding of what inflation is and why it's so BAD.

Seriously I've been having this same argument with the same suspects for close to 3 years now. It never changes despite a complete and utter lack of any supporting evidence we get the continues cries of "OMG TEH INFLATION NERF ISK SINK I CONSIDER BAD GAMEPLAY

At absolute most we've seen is that an increase in earning potential will move the price floor which as long as every can equalize to the new price point is not a problem.

Once again inflation is only a problem if wages are inelastic as long as people can easily increase their earning potential to match the new dynamic it's not an issue.

But what about CCPs 13 fold increase in the money supply

Until CCP gives us a value on the increase in raw materials entering the market all the rest is just groundless rationalizing.

To really have a measure on inflation we'd need to be able to compare money supply to the rate at which production inputs are injected into the economy. Show me the volume of minerals, moon goo, and PI entering/leaving the economy relative to the injection of isk and then we can have a real conversation about whether or not their is monetary inflation

This is silly, people being more "rich" just means people are flying more expensive stuff and will be less risk adverse.

Basically agreed, but I guess not everyone would like to scale down back to cruisers to do any pvp in (in case mineral prices go boom). That perspective also directly invalidates the old argument of "cheap minerals are good for pvp" .



Could you or someone else explain to me that graph? I am really at a loss here. What exactly is the money supply there? Is it the accumulated liquid isk of the entire subbed population at the given moment? If so, what are the units? Or is it perhaps calculated per capita? Again, units? Or is it weighted (by what and how?) and thus dimensionless? I tried to ask this at the blog comments and even got a direct dev reply, but he only directed me back to the somewhat vague eve wiki definitions.

I also agree that we just don't have enough data yet to say anything definite (and even then it is not clear if an inflation is such a bad thing - buff to mining anyone?).

This requires Logic V witch obviously some people at CCP haven't already found the book.

Missions and lvl4's/Lp's in high sec bring too much isk/minerals to the game? -let me laugh k?

High sec pvp for a real reason and meaning in the game/community? -I'm still laughing

Mining/hauling, ganking, high sec mining/hauling mechanics/ships ok? -omg by belly, please stop.

Bots mining/rating/anoms/make your sister have fun

Multiboxing

incursions

Drones alloys

Trading

Sucks

Rarely fails that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If nobody speaks up for null-sec residents, then we are guaranteed to be under-served by CCP's crack group of game designers.

That said, I have an alt all skilled up for high-sec incursion running when I can be arsed to put time into it.

As a casual player that has recently started to play again, the new prices is slowly making me regret playing again. Who thought Incursions would have such a great impact...

Just stupid.

- Poeple who fly incursions might buy stuff they need for incursions if they lose something.
- Incursions HATE drones.
- So WHY should they buy drone ships at all?

Sure, they might use them for other stuff. But then they would buy them even without incursions.

This said I might go with you, when this price increase would just be for ships and items this incursion runners use. Legion, Faction BS, Suprts and all the needed fitting.


There are other factors like highsec miner ganking:
- Miners lose ships much more frequently.
- To compensate this loses they don't sell their Ore that low anymore.
- With a rise in Ore price production cost went up.

Or:
- the eastern is in War atm (XXX v Sol v AAA (?) v RED v Goons)
- as they can't rat all day and loot the drone-region-ore this ore is missing on the market
- production cost rise

And there are more factors. To blame Incursions for all this is just stupid!

Because the Myrmidon is popular with small fleet/solo PvPers, who make their ISK either directly through Incursions or profit from people who run Incursions. "Incursion runner" is not mutually exclusive with "low sec roamer". The money to lose all those myrmidons has to come from somewhere.



To simply exclude Incursions from consideration is equally ill advised.