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Will dust 514 players get in and stay in the aging MMO?
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Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#21 - 2012-03-15 08:02:42 UTC
Alexei Orlov wrote:
Seems to me that CCP has presented DUST 514 as a new market, not really as a draw to get new people to play EVE proper.

That said, I would expect there to be some number of people trying out EVE due to their experience with DUST, but that seems very much to be incidental (though probably welcome.) Everything I've read from CCP indicates to me that they want DUST to stand on its own, but that the connection to a larger field (EVE) is to be a draw for players to DUST.

Upshot being we may see some new subcriptions due to DUST but the two games are polar opposites. The number of occasions where they will both appeal strongly to a given player seem few.


Considering how popular BF3 and Tribes are between TEST and PL...
I don't think you're right. If anything, Dust will be populated entirely by bored EVE players and the occasional outsider.
Raisa Mole
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-03-15 08:15:57 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Stetson Eagle wrote:
When dust is released, there will probably be a player base spike of dusties willing to test the MMO. Will Eve, with the refined politics and culture, incaptivate the newcomers? Or will the skillpoint gap discourage the console players who want to start on the same line with others?

It is elementary that in order to prolong Eve, new players need to flow into the game as veterans are getting out. Currently the game feels to be polarizing into less players using more alt pilots. How will eve attract and keep new players? Could previously "young" players get dragged into the slow pace of Eve?

A new shard would practically kill the current tranquility and it would undermine the usage of PLEX. But is it the only option at some point? Will there be eve 2.0 - Another New Genesis? I for one would love a reset even if it would mean the new server lasts a few years only. All the friends of mine who would not join a MMO in progress would hop right in and start the race for the galaxy.


I do not see that new players have any problems to beat guys like you who have no clue how games work.

Example new shard does not change anything, same to players from current EVE would just rule in there too, knowledge is power not skill points.


Yes, but SP gap whiners will never, ever understand that. They are so completely convinced that low SP players can't contribute or compete that the concept that SP doesn't matter is ridiculous to them.

You are 100% right, a new shard would have exactly the same situation it does now. There would be this initial rush to raise isk and claim unclaimed 0.0 space, so there would temporarily be this riot of colors on the map. Then they would all get run out and the map would settle to a similar state that it is now as the people who actually understand how things work finish taking over.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#23 - 2012-03-17 12:32:18 UTC
Raisa Mole wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Stetson Eagle wrote:
When dust is released, there will probably be a player base spike of dusties willing to test the MMO. Will Eve, with the refined politics and culture, incaptivate the newcomers? Or will the skillpoint gap discourage the console players who want to start on the same line with others?

It is elementary that in order to prolong Eve, new players need to flow into the game as veterans are getting out. Currently the game feels to be polarizing into less players using more alt pilots. How will eve attract and keep new players? Could previously "young" players get dragged into the slow pace of Eve?

A new shard would practically kill the current tranquility and it would undermine the usage of PLEX. But is it the only option at some point? Will there be eve 2.0 - Another New Genesis? I for one would love a reset even if it would mean the new server lasts a few years only. All the friends of mine who would not join a MMO in progress would hop right in and start the race for the galaxy.


I do not see that new players have any problems to beat guys like you who have no clue how games work.

Example new shard does not change anything, same to players from current EVE would just rule in there too, knowledge is power not skill points.


Yes, but SP gap whiners will never, ever understand that. They are so completely convinced that low SP players can't contribute or compete that the concept that SP doesn't matter is ridiculous to them.

You are 100% right, a new shard would have exactly the same situation it does now. There would be this initial rush to raise isk and claim unclaimed 0.0 space, so there would temporarily be this riot of colors on the map. Then they would all get run out and the map would settle to a similar state that it is now as the people who actually understand how things work finish taking over.


I'm not at any point arguing that the main issue is SP gap. I've personally been the type that flew rifters and punishers at sub 1M skillpoints in pvp with success, and this char got his first solo officer spawn kill in a daredevil under 1M sp.

I'm not at any point arguing that eve would be different than it is now. It just would be a new start and a new goldrush, and that in itself is strong enough intentive for a multitude of potential new players. Analogical example is diablo2, which still goes on because of consistent ladder resets and new starts.

What I'm arguing is that many potential players are turned off because they don't feel they will impact the sandbox with the same competency as the players who have been developing contacts etc. over the years. A new sandbox would of course require the strategical sense and wisdom of veterans, but it would also be a brilliant chance for newbies to get involved. Imagine a new sandbox and the decisions involved in claiming space: Will our doctrine be drakes, spider domis or alpha maels? Prehaps sansha space for slave implants with abaddons? Or, as a miner, think of the need for minerals to kick start your alliance. As an industrialist, the impact of proper industry!
Vetrox Satria
Lords of Crabula Group
#24 - 2012-03-17 14:00:25 UTC
The people who play dust have a ps3 for a reason...because they dont like/cant afford/cant be arsed to own a pc. So chances are they wont even bother thinking about coming to play eve.
Valei Khurelem
#25 - 2012-03-17 15:33:58 UTC
I find it amusing that EVE players actually consider themselves more intelligent than other gamers considering the quality of posts here.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-03-17 15:55:47 UTC
Waiting PC emulator or official PC release to test.

Consoles game....seriously, console?
-100 pts on my respectometer.
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-03-17 17:45:07 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
I find it amusing that EVE players actually consider themselves more intelligent than other gamers considering the quality of posts here.


I find it amusing that you are still here.
London
Moira.
#28 - 2012-03-17 18:29:42 UTC
Specialization kind of makes the whole SP gap a moot point. It doesn't take long to specialize in something that is useful or that you really enjoy and be relatively on par with a vet (ISK being the only favorable factor usually tipped in the vet's favor, although even this is somewhat alleviated through PLEX).

The vets true advantage lies in versatility, that's essentially what high SPs get you.
Valei Khurelem
#29 - 2012-03-17 18:54:24 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
I find it amusing that EVE players actually consider themselves more intelligent than other gamers considering the quality of posts here.


I find it amusing that you are still here.


It's nice people enjoy me posting here thanks! ^_^

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Adunh Slavy
#30 - 2012-03-17 19:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Stetson Eagle wrote:

When dust is released, there will probably be a player base spike of dusties willing to test the MMO. Will Eve, with the refined politics and culture, incaptivate the newcomers? Or will the skillpoint gap discourage the console players who want to start on the same line with others?


What skill point gap? The gap between Dust players that will develop over time or the gap between them an Eve?

There really isn't any gap of concern between Dust and Eve since we don't fight in each other's playground, there may be the orbital nuke or ground cannon interaction one day, but I don't see how that matters, Can't imagine CCP will allow the condition to exist where Dusties can't blow up Eve when Eve can blow up Dust.

As far as the gap in Dust, depends on how CCP does things. I suspect that most Dust SP will be what equipment you can use and what bonus that equipment gives to armour, vehicles, dmg mod for weapons. But the real skill in Dust will remain how well one plays an FPS. Experience and competency in the environment will have more value than SP, so long as SP doesn't give some players wildly out of proportion stat bonuses. Of course, CCP can screw that up, so who knows :)

Stetson Eagle wrote:

It is elementary that in order to prolong Eve, new players need to flow into the game as veterans are getting out. Currently the game feels to be polarizing into less players using more alt pilots. How will eve attract and keep new players? Could previously "young" players get dragged into the slow pace of Eve?


CCP is a business, and we be can sure they will do a number of cross platform promotions, "Sign up and play Eve too, get a discount and a free quafe flag for your tank!"

Stetson Eagle wrote:

A new shard would practically kill the current tranquility and it would undermine the usage of PLEX. But is it the only option at some point? Will there be eve 2.0 - Another New Genesis? I for one would love a reset even if it would mean the new server lasts a few years only. All the friends of mine who would not join a MMO in progress would hop right in and start the race for the galaxy.


I doubt it. One of CCP's most valuable marketing points is the single shared game space, making another, China's legal requirements aside, pretty much defeats one of the main ideas behind Eve.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
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