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Dust & PI
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Adunh Slavy
#1 - 2012-03-15 21:46:11 UTC
Any speculation on PI prices after Fanfest with Dust information? Granted we have no idea about how much Dust will impact Eve, but we know planets are involved, so I would speculate that planets can be "turned off" as it were.

Will this impact PI prices or simply cause disruptions for alliances from time to time.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#2 - 2012-03-16 13:46:26 UTC
Meh - unless DUST brings enough to the table that people will actually go out and buy a PS3 to play it, probably not much more then "minor annoyance".

As much as the developers love PI, and as much as I think PI is a major boon for new players (harvest planets are dead-simple, low-capital outlay and provide good income early on), CCP has not iterated enough on the concept of using PI goods in other blueprints like they promised 20 months ago. They need to roll out some new BPCs (NPC-dropped, LP store sold, exploration drops) to add more demand on the PI materials (especially those with low demand currently).
Captain Midol
United Labour Force
#3 - 2012-03-16 17:16:46 UTC
I still think Dust is a myth personally.
Adunh Slavy
#4 - 2012-03-16 17:59:13 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Meh - unless DUST brings enough to the table that people will actually go out and buy a PS3 to play it, probably not much more then "minor annoyance".

As much as the developers love PI, and as much as I think PI is a major boon for new players (harvest planets are dead-simple, low-capital outlay and provide good income early on), CCP has not iterated enough on the concept of using PI goods in other blueprints like they promised 20 months ago. They need to roll out some new BPCs (NPC-dropped, LP store sold, exploration drops) to add more demand on the PI materials (especially those with low demand currently).



Have to agree, CCP had a great opportunity to create some more niches in the landscape by linking PI to minerals, consuming mins to build the PI things, and in turn using some PI things in ship construction. Maybe they still will, but am going to have to doubt it.

At this time I don't see how Dust Bunnies messing around with a few planets here and there will have much of an impact on an alliance. If, and this is a huge IF, if there are enough Dust players, and their cost to an alliance is low enough, then perhaps thousands of planets at a time could be under contention.

There are a total of 26,915 Barren and Temperate planets in all of Eve, the kinds Dust Bunnies can fight upon. Of that, 11,779 are in null sec, that includes NPC null sec, what that count in NPC null sec is I have no idea, maybe 10% of that?

Anyway, that is 43% of alliance impacting planets are contestable by dust bunnies, roughly 10,000 or so. To keep them all in contention all the time would require 64,000 Dust bunnies online 24/7, 64 person instanced battles, right?

So even if Dust bunny count is that high, and simply fighting alone disrupts manufacture, that's still a heck of a lot of planets left that have nothing to do with alliance areas. If Dust can cause enough disruption to alliance held planets to impact manufacture of PI related things, then alliances will move some alts off to low sec, build there, out of the alliance, and jump freighter in what they need.

So there must be something else to this whole Dust thing than simply messing up a few PI installations. Some how it has to impact Sov or players are going to meta there way right around it.

There must be something we're missing ... here's to Fanfest answering some questions, hopefully.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Heathkit
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-03-17 04:17:29 UTC
Oh god, please stop saying "dust bunnies".
Adunh Slavy
#6 - 2012-03-17 04:25:15 UTC
Heathkit wrote:
Oh god, please stop saying "dust bunnies".



Dust Squirrels, Dust Rabbits, Dust Ponies? Dust Dingos?

Do they have an official name yet? Dust Mercs? How bland. How about Dust Kablooie Troopers

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#7 - 2012-03-17 06:46:57 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Meh - unless DUST brings enough to the table that people will actually go out and buy a PS3 to play it, probably not much more then "minor annoyance".

As much as the developers love PI, and as much as I think PI is a major boon for new players (harvest planets are dead-simple, low-capital outlay and provide good income early on), CCP has not iterated enough on the concept of using PI goods in other blueprints like they promised 20 months ago. They need to roll out some new BPCs (NPC-dropped, LP store sold, exploration drops) to add more demand on the PI materials (especially those with low demand currently).



Have to agree, CCP had a great opportunity to create some more niches in the landscape by linking PI to minerals, consuming mins to build the PI things, and in turn using some PI things in ship construction. Maybe they still will, but am going to have to doubt it.

At this time I don't see how Dust Bunnies messing around with a few planets here and there will have much of an impact on an alliance. If, and this is a huge IF, if there are enough Dust players, and their cost to an alliance is low enough, then perhaps thousands of planets at a time could be under contention.

There are a total of 26,915 Barren and Temperate planets in all of Eve, the kinds Dust Bunnies can fight upon. Of that, 11,779 are in null sec, that includes NPC null sec, what that count in NPC null sec is I have no idea, maybe 10% of that?

Anyway, that is 43% of alliance impacting planets are contestable by dust bunnies, roughly 10,000 or so. To keep them all in contention all the time would require 64,000 Dust bunnies online 24/7, 64 person instanced battles, right?

So even if Dust bunny count is that high, and simply fighting alone disrupts manufacture, that's still a heck of a lot of planets left that have nothing to do with alliance areas. If Dust can cause enough disruption to alliance held planets to impact manufacture of PI related things, then alliances will move some alts off to low sec, build there, out of the alliance, and jump freighter in what they need.

So there must be something else to this whole Dust thing than simply messing up a few PI installations. Some how it has to impact Sov or players are going to meta there way right around it.

There must be something we're missing ... here's to Fanfest answering some questions, hopefully.



In the last Dust vid, a Dread was nuked from the planet. I-Hubs are at planets. The I-Hub goes down, Sov levels are lost. Dust has the potential to really mess with EVE. So far there hasn't been any indication how any of this will implement though. I suspect Wormhole space will see a flux due to PI disruptions as low sec is just too unfriendly to industrial and high sec is bankrupt PI wise.
Adunh Slavy
#8 - 2012-03-17 08:20:03 UTC
Skydell wrote:

In the last Dust vid, a Dread was nuked from the planet. I-Hubs are at planets. The I-Hub goes down, Sov levels are lost. Dust has the potential to really mess with EVE. So far there hasn't been any indication how any of this will implement though. I suspect Wormhole space will see a flux due to PI disruptions as low sec is just too unfriendly to industrial and high sec is bankrupt PI wise.


Been a while since I played with Sov mechanics, back in the dominion beta. I-hubs had to go at temperate and barren planets? If I am remembering that correctly, then yes, that fits.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#9 - 2012-03-18 04:16:18 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Skydell wrote:

In the last Dust vid, a Dread was nuked from the planet. I-Hubs are at planets. The I-Hub goes down, Sov levels are lost. Dust has the potential to really mess with EVE. So far there hasn't been any indication how any of this will implement though. I suspect Wormhole space will see a flux due to PI disruptions as low sec is just too unfriendly to industrial and high sec is bankrupt PI wise.


Been a while since I played with Sov mechanics, back in the dominion beta. I-hubs had to go at temperate and barren planets? If I am remembering that correctly, then yes, that fits.


No, I don't think Planet type was an issue. Last time I messed around I think I stuck one at an Ice planet. I also have no idea how many were placed at barren and temp not really putting much thought in to it. In addition, CCP said that Dust wouldn't have a powerfull impact on EVE or vice verca, in the beginning. I think they want to see how much we are going to torture them and if they will just laugh and move on to the next first person or stay and fight.
Adunh Slavy
#10 - 2012-03-18 10:02:57 UTC
Skydell wrote:
No, I don't think Planet type was an issue. Last time I messed around I think I stuck one at an Ice planet. I also have no idea how many were placed at barren and temp not really putting much thought in to it. In addition, CCP said that Dust wouldn't have a powerfull impact on EVE or vice verca, in the beginning. I think they want to see how much we are going to torture them and if they will just laugh and move on to the next first person or stay and fight.



Hope they can have a "powerful" impact on one another. There was a good thread in GD the other day that mentioned this. With all the hype about the two games impacting one another, the risk of "keeping them apart so as not to do too much damage" may be more of a risk than "oops, Dust is too powerful".

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Maeste Madeveda
The Spawning Pool
#11 - 2012-03-18 10:23:18 UTC
Console players won't be as hardcore as we are. If we have the possibility from the beginning to wipe them out almost effortlessly then the game will never work. That's why interaction will be limited at first, I think we will be just provider for contract in the beginning.

I know the hatch plans to finance a Dust corp and I guess we won't be the only community in Eve to do so.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#12 - 2012-03-21 00:10:05 UTC
Honest, with the prices of planetary vehicles, or at least to the extent of the prices CCP made up, I'm going to have a hard time justifying investing any isk into defending my colonies.
Adunh Slavy
#13 - 2012-03-21 05:49:34 UTC
Maeste Madeveda wrote:
Console players won't be as hardcore as we are.


I don't think we can generalize "console players" as being hard core or not. I have never liked the console thing myself, but people I do know who have them, play them a lot, almost as much as I mess around with PC games.

What consoles have not done very often is create a persistent world with an engaging political and economic backdrop. This may have value for a lot of console junkies, the sort of value that keeps console junkies coming back, staying up too late and forgetting to go to the bathroom. It is those hardcore consolers that are the target audience, and as far as I can tell, there are plenty of them around.

I think the question should be, how many of the hardcore console players are going to be interested in forming a relationship with Eve and Dust. Those that are not hardcore, they may try it and leave in short order, that is to be expected, and if they were PC gamers instead of console gamers, they'd likely be the sort that are happier with Angry Birds, Farmville and Bejeweled.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt