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Issues, Workarounds & Localization

 
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Drones

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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#61 - 2011-09-23 17:38:44 UTC
Nyio wrote:

And this.Smile


What sort of rats is this happening with? Drones shouldn't be selecting targets until you're actually fired upon (red box rather than yellow box).
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2011-09-23 17:42:15 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Nyio wrote:

And this.Smile


What sort of rats is this happening with? Drones shouldn't be selecting targets until you're actually fired upon (red box rather than yellow box).


Last times it happened was in all sorts of L3-L4 Gallente space missions.
Haven't bothered take notes since I thought "this must be one of those known issues that will be fixed Soon™". P

Golem • CCP In-Game Event 2011.11.23 • Nyio • Grenade?
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#63 - 2011-09-23 18:11:35 UTC
Is it OK for drones which are set to passive, and to assist another player, to suddenly stop assisting the other player and start shooting at random rats who are aggroing their mother-ship?

And for drones who are set to aggressive and to focus-fire to divide and attack more than one target?

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2011-09-23 19:06:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ok, so the three things I'm seeing repeatedly are:

* Drones picking their own targets/going idle (based on aggressive/passive setting I'm assuming) after a fairly consistent delay once you've issued a command
* Drones failing to focus fire
* Drones catching a fast target, dropping to normal speed and immediately getting left behind

Am I missing something or are those the major problems?


- There is really only one problem and it is some drones going idle.

-> Drones picking their own targets is result of some drones going idle (agressive ones are supposed to do this after going idle).
-> Drones failing to focus fire is result of some drones going idle and picking their own (random) targets after this.
-> Drones catching a fast target, dropping to normal speed and immediately getting left behind is rather normal behauviour as far as I am aware. If the drones drop from orbit, they have to catch the target again. If drones manage to go idle during this, at least the speed isn't the trigger. It could still happen for the same reason than in all the other cases. This is why I would ignore "fast targets" from this entire issue as not being relevant.

The reason why some drones are going idle is unknown, but Mr Hellcat here may be close to the cause:

Mr Hellcat wrote:
It appears that while doing a mission drones become confused as to what target they are tracking.

For example, if a target is destroyed, or I issue a new attack order on a different target. All five drones will respond and approach the new target to get into firing range. Sometimes between 1 to 5 drones will drop out of attack mode.

What I think is happening is that, some of the drones are still in coldown on their turrets. So when the drone comes out of cool down the turrets are still looking at the old target, even though a new target was specified. The turrets attempt to fire at the old target, which no longer exists. So no target, a stop order is issued by the server and the drones go into a ready state.

So 5 drones are attacking target, 3 have just fired weapons and popped the target, I issue a new attack order, all five drones respond. As drones head into range on new target, 3 come out of turret cool down and realize the target no longer exists. This is interperted as the new target no longer exists, those three go into standby, the other two continue on to attacking new target. Or those three may travel back and attack the old target if it stil exists if I issued a new target while they are in turret cooldown.

That is how it appears to me.


In other words some drones have their previous cycle (mining, shooting) still rolling when they move or are ordered to new target. When this cycle ends, drone notices that the target it was aiming is dead/depleted. Drone goes idle and does what it is supposed to _on its own_ after this.

If this estimation is correct, there is bug on code which assigns new target to drones, removes old one from their brain and stops the current cycles they are working on when target dies/depletes/changes

This is the best I can do to explain. Trying it really tells everything. It is so easy to reproduce even while doing missions or mining. Using passive combat drones gives most clear results as passive drones don't automaticly engage new enemy after going idle.

edit: bug report 115782 updated with the details above.
edit: added commented video

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Svaste
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2011-09-25 15:51:44 UTC
"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online


I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality.
COMM4NDER
Legendary Umbrellas
#66 - 2011-09-26 04:23:47 UTC
Svaste wrote:
"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online


I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality.


Wheels are in motion and then I got deported back to India. Your a verry bad man Verry bad man.

[url=https://github.com/CommanderAlchemy/.bin/blob/master/eve] EVE - Online Launcher [Linux] [/url] Installs, launches character prefixes (both SISI & Tranquility). Simplescreenrecorder shm inject
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#67 - 2011-09-26 06:29:47 UTC
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
Alot fo very relevant stuff

I think its more an issue of the drones descision making being given priority over ours, or perhaps equal priority. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but they tend to remember the target they chose for themselves when you give them orders after they attack something.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Aelana Anais
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2011-09-26 14:26:29 UTC
Svaste wrote:
"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online


I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality.


Most/All of the stuff mentioned in this thread were broken pre-Incarna, the only thing that changed is the frequency.
Svaste
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2011-09-26 15:19:38 UTC
Aelana Anais wrote:
Svaste wrote:
"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online


I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality.


Most/All of the stuff mentioned in this thread were broken pre-Incarna, the only thing that changed is the frequency.


No.
Aelana Anais
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2011-09-26 18:58:04 UTC
Svaste wrote:
Aelana Anais wrote:
Svaste wrote:
"We are listening to you, we have heard you, and plans are already in motion." -Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online


I hope this means drones will be restored to their pre-Incarna functionality.


Most/All of the stuff mentioned in this thread were broken pre-Incarna, the only thing that changed is the frequency.


No.


I personally have experienced most of the behavior described pre-incarna so.... Yes.
Lieyan Electra
DutchDemons
#71 - 2011-09-27 11:08:19 UTC
Client Update 4
To be released September 27, 2011

Modules

Fixed an issue that prevented modules from being unfitted in space using a ship maintenance array by dropping them onto the cargo icon on the fitting screen.

How bout this drone issue CCP?????????? again not a word.....Evil
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#72 - 2011-09-27 18:57:36 UTC
Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).

Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2011-09-27 19:00:41 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).

Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(


It's good to hear someone is poking it though. P

Golem • CCP In-Game Event 2011.11.23 • Nyio • Grenade?
Aelana Anais
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2011-09-27 19:12:14 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).

Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(


Would it help if I reproduced it and FRAPSed it?

Also were you using keyboard to switch targets or mouse... it seems to happen for me only when using keyboard shortcut.
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#75 - 2011-09-27 19:29:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).

Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(



Try the following:

Have two clients open. Set both to "Fixed window" mode and your native screen resolution (so that they take the full screen).

On one client, have an Armageddon deploy Curator I's on agressive mode, focus fire and "attack and follow" (thats for fighters, but heh). On the other client, have a dominix deploy Curator II's and assist it to the Armageddon.

Then return to the armageddon and manually order them to attack targets with the keyboard shortcut. Btw, change the default shortcut key to something like "Z". Shoot anomaly rats in that setup.


I'm not saying that this is the specific scenario where this issue happens, but it happens to me on a daily basis on that setup. By the way, when i tell the agressive drones to attack a target, and they proceed to attack that target, then decide to switch again they don't switch randomly. They always go back to the same rat they were shooting before. Perhaps the highest damage dealer?


One thing is important though. IT HAS TO BE ON FIXED WINDOW MODE. Both clients.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
Aelana Anais
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-09-27 22:45:39 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:

One thing is important though. IT HAS TO BE ON FIXED WINDOW MODE. Both clients.


Neat. I too am set up like this. I never thought it might be based on graphics settings.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2011-09-27 23:18:58 UTC
Yea playing in window mode also but not "fixed window"...

Anyways looks like we gotta start doing some fraps collections... I will see if I have time in weekend... to make special drones go idle remix....

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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#78 - 2011-09-28 12:07:25 UTC
i am playing full screen and it happened to me several times also. I am now pressing F multiple times to be sure to "overwrite" the misbehaviour with the order.

Quite effective workaround for almost everything in eve (jumping, warping, docking etc). If you really want something to happen, press it multiple times.


@CCP Greyscale without knowing the code (obviously): this all sounds like a concurrency issue where the "receive player order" action isn't processed for all drones in a critical section. A race condition between game mechanics (agress next target) and the player action.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#79 - 2011-09-28 12:47:07 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:

Try the following:

Have two clients open. Set both to "Fixed window" mode and your native screen resolution (so that they take the full screen).



I'm not sure if it's directly related but it might.

I usually use 2 clients in fixed window, one on each machine and ID (or Synergy+) to share mouse and keyboard between them.

And I often get more less strange or delayed (mainly UI) stuff happening on the monitor not having focus.

I haven't coded much GUI stuff on windows so I don't know what happens codewise when a window lose focus but it obvious that something odd happens.

One simple example is the overview not updating (at least sorting) stuff on the 'passive' monitor. But as soon as I move the mouse over to that monitor, the overview sorts itself within a second.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Kryz Terriq
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2011-09-28 17:48:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kryz Terriq
this happens also with pos-shooting

my case:

  • fixed window mode
  • single client (windows 7)
  • in fleet, with a maelstrom
  • at enemy pos in shooting range, lets say 30 to 50 km from the tower
  • deploy sentries (bouncer II) (ship has stopped, 0 speed)
  • let sentries engage the tower (right click, engage target, too lazy for shortcut)
  • wait until its reinforced (you probably dont have to wait, but i did follow orders Roll)
  • let sentries engage a gun/warp disruptor/whatever pos module outside shield (right click, engage)
  • now watch what your drones do (mostly following your command for a short time and than do something else - on undefended pos (no enemies just modules) mostly going idle (presumably because i wasnt shot/neuted/scrambled by a pos module))


may not happen all the time, but it was always like this when i paid attention Twisted

i will check if this can be easily repeated on sisi the next days or maybe i am in luck and have another boring pos shooty Lol