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Null/low Ishtar Plex fit

Author
Rindon Callsar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-03-16 04:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Rindon Callsar
So I am just coming back to the game after a long long break. I had been flying an AFK Dominix in missions prior to my leaving. I came back and decided I wanted to actually use the Ishtar that I spent the time training on. I have been reading thread after thread after thread trying to figure out the best fit to go and am still torn between passive shield and active tank.

What I am wanting to get into is some low/null plex/ratting.


At the moment my current set up is this:

Highs:
Civ gat
Small tractor I
Salvager I
Improved cloaking device II
Core Probe Launcher w/ sisters core probes

Mids:
Fed Navy 10mn AB
Med Peroxide Cap Power Cell
Cap Recharger II x2
Omnidirectional I

Lows:
Corelum C Med Armor Repper
Damage Control II
thermic hardener x2
coreli b em hardener (was cheaper than the C some how)

Rigs:
Med CCC
Med Aux Nano Pump

Resists: 83/93/97/24
Speed is 594 m/s with AB

Due to CPU problems I usually keep cloak/probe offline to fit everything. I have to use faction armor since I can't use t2 yet. I also am using t2 light/med, t1 heavy/sent drones atm. Sents are almost t2 and haven't bothered with heavies yet.

My main question is will this fit work for null/low sec plexing and ratting or would a passive shield fit work as good/better? I am able to use t2 shield items since I skilled up for WH's at one point. I am completely new to the exploring/ratting/plexing solo thing. I have been getting used to the Ishtar in lvl 3/4 missions and doing plexes I find in my mission hub (usually 3/10 which I burn through).



Passive Shield fit would be something like

highs:
same as above

mids:
3-4x large shield extender II
1-2x passive specific resist

lows:
Beta reactor x5

Rig:
Med Def core field purger I x2

Any critiques or advice is much appreciated.

As always, thanks in advance.


edit: I am also curious if either of these fits would be able to solo WH's and what lvl's could I do? I assume 1's and 2's but not sure...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2012-03-16 06:59:37 UTC
Congrats on your choice - great ship Cool

Check out this awesome thread by Hungry Eyes https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30338&find=unread

I prefer active tank, simply because it lets you take maximum advantage of sentries. Tanks also nearly the same amount, because of much lower signature.

I prefer to minimize engineering equipment, and focus on improving dps. Your tank has so nice resists, that you probably don't need to run the repper all the time, just a cycle now and then. I use maybe 2-4 cap boosters per site. If I fly with corpies, I swap the recharger to a target painter, it helps their missiles too.

My version I've used for basic anomalies (Serp & Guri Sanctums, Havens, Ports and various Hubs)

[Ishtar, Nullinja]

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Core Probe Launcher I /OFFLINE
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Prototype Cloaking Device I
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Cap Recharger II

Damage Control II
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Dark Blood Armor EM Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener
Domination Medium Armor Repairer

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I


Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x1
Hornet EC-300 x5
Curator II x5
Garde II x5


Drone boats can be fitted many ways, so there is room for tweaking the Ishtar to your personal preferences. Take it out and try- good luck!

.

Rindon Callsar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-03-16 07:16:02 UTC
Roime wrote:
Congrats on your choice - great ship Cool

Check out this awesome thread by Hungry Eyes https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=30338&find=unread

I prefer active tank, simply because it lets you take maximum advantage of sentries. Tanks also nearly the same amount, because of much lower signature.

I prefer to minimize engineering equipment, and focus on improving dps. Your tank has so nice resists, that you probably don't need to run the repper all the time, just a cycle now and then. I use maybe 2-4 cap boosters per site. If I fly with corpies, I swap the recharger to a target painter, it helps their missiles too.

My version I've used for basic anomalies (Serp & Guri Sanctums, Havens, Ports and various Hubs)

[Ishtar, Nullinja]

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Core Probe Launcher I /OFFLINE
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Prototype Cloaking Device I
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M

10MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Cap Recharger II

Damage Control II
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Dark Blood Armor EM Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener
Domination Medium Armor Repairer

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I


Hobgoblin II x5
Garde II x1
Hornet EC-300 x5
Curator II x5
Garde II x5


Drone boats can be fitted many ways, so there is room for tweaking the Ishtar to your personal preferences. Take it out and try- good luck!



Might I ask why you take Nano Plating over Membrane? Is it CPU use?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2012-03-16 07:35:47 UTC
Yeah, CPU is tight because of the Sentry Damage rigs, and because I insist on having the guns on there.

Blasters require you to travel away from the sentries to apply damage, but once on target they bring about 200dps extra, which does help finishing the battleships quite a bit faster.

If you drop a hardener for a faction/deadspace resistance plate, you can fit 200mm T2 rails. I haven't tested them yet, I always forget to buy them when I'm in empire :D

.

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2012-03-16 07:46:31 UTC
Oh please note that in hisec and if you access low/null via gates, you should maybe dual-prop it like Hungry Eyes advises.

MWD is a clear advantage in contested hisec sites, and MWD+Cloak can save your butt on low/null entry points.

.

Mnemosyne Gloob
#6 - 2012-03-16 10:10:56 UTC
i would say that in serp/gurista go armor, in other space shield could probably be better (also can't fit much utility mods in a shield version). There are also situations, where the shield buffer might be beneficial (smartbombing stations in some sites).
Rindon Callsar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-03-16 15:34:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Rindon Callsar
Would the armor tank fit I have set up be good for null/low exploring? Also, would it be able to take some c1/2 WHs?

If not what would you change on it? Thanks much.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#8 - 2012-03-16 17:03:50 UTC
Rindon Callsar wrote:
Would the armor tank fit I have set up be good for null/low exploring? Also, would it be able to take some c1/2 WHs?

If not what would you change on it? Thanks much.


What rats are you looking at for exploration? It really does make a huge difference. I used an Ishtar for Blood low sec for awhile and it did alright; I'll try to dig out the fit later if you're interested. It really shines against Serpentis and Guristas though; search the old forums for fits from FooToo Rama. Angels will give it a hard time in an armor configuration with the explosive hole.
Rindon Callsar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-03-16 17:25:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rindon Callsar
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Rindon Callsar wrote:
Would the armor tank fit I have set up be good for null/low exploring? Also, would it be able to take some c1/2 WHs?

If not what would you change on it? Thanks much.


What rats are you looking at for exploration? It really does make a huge difference. I used an Ishtar for Blood low sec for awhile and it did alright; I'll try to dig out the fit later if you're interested. It really shines against Serpentis and Guristas though; search the old forums for fits from FooToo Rama. Angels will give it a hard time in an armor configuration with the explosive hole.



That brings up the main problem I have been having since coming back. I forget what rats are in which space lol. I have just been kind of wandering around my mission hub in Pamah at the moment.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2012-03-16 19:55:14 UTC
Amarr: Blood Raiders & Sanshas
Gallente: Serpentis
Caldari: Guristas
Minmatar: Angels
Wormholes: Sleepers

Rogue drones are everywhere :o

This is the supermap of EVE http://evemaps.dotlan.net/

Python Fitting Assistant pyfa http://evefit.org/
Damage types for it: http://pastebin.com/cusLiY70

As what comes to your fit, piloting a high-resist cruiser under exposure to pvp calls for a different mindset than AFK Domi. Your resists combined with the speed+sigtank means that most of the damage is simply shaken off. Small ships tickle, and big ships miss you most of the time. You will see damage notifications of <10 points. Consequently there is no need to run the repper all the time, and all you want is to be cap stable with the AB on.

Outside hisec you want to clear the sites as fast as possible to minimize your exposure to player violence. Clear the site, grab the loot and get out before the air is full of combat probes and nasties buzzing around in your site- you want to maximise your dps, and avoid overtanking. What looks low in EFT is actually a real proper Boss Tank in reality in the case of T2/T3 ships.

I'd exchange a cap rig or rather both for Sentry Damage Augmentors. T1 sentries without rigs might be a little too weak.

I haven't tried C1s or C2s in the Ishtar, but in C3s it failed spectacularly. Problem is getting enough omnitank, and those nasty buggers web and neut you as well. Myrmidon can do a better omnitank, it can solo C2s. C1s are pretty easy, just pay attention to your drones, Sleepers switch aggro and hate drones with passion.

.

Rindon Callsar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-03-16 20:18:08 UTC
Roime wrote:
Amarr: Blood Raiders & Sanshas
Gallente: Serpentis
Caldari: Guristas
Minmatar: Angels
Wormholes: Sleepers

Rogue drones are everywhere :o

This is the supermap of EVE http://evemaps.dotlan.net/

Python Fitting Assistant pyfa http://evefit.org/
Damage types for it: http://pastebin.com/cusLiY70

As what comes to your fit, piloting a high-resist cruiser under exposure to pvp calls for a different mindset than AFK Domi. Your resists combined with the speed+sigtank means that most of the damage is simply shaken off. Small ships tickle, and big ships miss you most of the time. You will see damage notifications of <10 points. Consequently there is no need to run the repper all the time, and all you want is to be cap stable with the AB on.

Outside hisec you want to clear the sites as fast as possible to minimize your exposure to player violence. Clear the site, grab the loot and get out before the air is full of combat probes and nasties buzzing around in your site- you want to maximise your dps, and avoid overtanking. What looks low in EFT is actually a real proper Boss Tank in reality in the case of T2/T3 ships.

I'd exchange a cap rig or rather both for Sentry Damage Augmentors. T1 sentries without rigs might be a little too weak.

I haven't tried C1s or C2s in the Ishtar, but in C3s it failed spectacularly. Problem is getting enough omnitank, and those nasty buggers web and neut you as well. Myrmidon can do a better omnitank, it can solo C2s. C1s are pretty easy, just pay attention to your drones, Sleepers switch aggro and hate drones with passion.


Awesome thank you very much.
I think I am going to hold off for Null/low until I get my t2 sents done in my next training phase. I will start using the Ishtar more though to get a better handle on what it can and can not do so I'm not running blind into everything.

I hopped into a c3 yesterday when I was out screwing around. Almost ended very badly after I started seeing the towers plinking me for 600 dmg. Luckily I warped off before I blew up.


One last question before I stop posting here: How is your cap with your set up? One thing I hate is having to worry about my cap all at the time while fighting. Especially if I were in null/low having to watch d-scan and pay attention to the cap and everything else going on. Would drive me nuts.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2012-03-16 23:03:46 UTC
Rindon Callsar wrote:
That brings up the main problem I have been having since coming back. I forget what rats are in which space lol. I have just been kind of wandering around my mission hub in Pamah at the moment.


Genesis = Blood Raiders. Pamah is actually only ~6 jumps from where I lost my first exploration Ishtar to a series of stupid mistakes. Pretty sure it looked something like this:


[Ishtar, exploratoin]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Salvager I
Prototype Cloaking Device I
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency S
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I


Garde II x5
Curator II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

With care, that could take on the Blood 6/10 (though not the 5/10). The only downside is it can't scan, so you have to have another ship for that. I ended up swapping it for a Tengu, but it was surprisingly capable to start with.
Rindon Callsar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-03-17 01:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rindon Callsar
This is what the Build I have at the moment looks like:

Modal Electron Particle Accelerator I / Cal Navy Antimatter M
Modal Electron Particle Accelerator I / Cal Navy Antimatter M
Modal Electron Particle Accelerator I / Cal Navy Antimatter M
Core Probe Launcher I *will be changing out for tractor while getting used to this ship
Proto Cloaking *changing out for salvager during carebear high sec

Fed Navy 10MN Afterburner
Medium Exlectrochemical Cap Booster 800
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Cap Recharger II

Damage Control II
Centii A-Type Adaptive Nano Plating
Corlum B-Type EM Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener
Corlum C-Type Medium Repairer


Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I


Running t2 scout/meds and faction heavy/sents while they are training. With the tracking the faction ogres should be able to take care of the small things.


Looks like I am cap stable with everything running full time minus the repper (will pulse when needed).

Resists come in at a respectable:
87/91/90/42
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2012-03-17 11:26:31 UTC
Looks good now :)

Rindon Callsar wrote:

One last question before I stop posting here: How is your cap with your set up? One thing I hate is having to worry about my cap all at the time while fighting. Especially if I were in null/low having to watch d-scan and pay attention to the cap and everything else going on. Would drive me nuts.


Like yours, mine is cap stable with guns & AB, and gives two minutes with repper on. That translates to 10-12 cycles of the rep, which is more than enough for most situations - and when it's not, just press the shortcut for your cap booster and you got full cap again.

Think about this way- if the local is empty, what else there is to do than manage cap :D it's not like the normal rats present any challenge to the Ishtar. You one-shot the small fry, and grind thru the bigger ones.

Faction sentries are very good choice while waiting for T2s. Good luck o/

.

Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-03-17 12:07:10 UTC
also, as the ishtar is an expensive fit, you should be able to afford modules for both the passive shield and armour fitouts, as well as appropriate rigs since they cost a few mil each or so.

Both fits are great, and depend mostly on neutralisers being present or not

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062

Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-03-17 17:26:33 UTC
Why are you folk not fitting large cap batteries?
Mnemosyne Gloob
#17 - 2012-03-17 17:45:02 UTC
Voith wrote:
Why are you folk not fitting large cap batteries?


cpu issues? ishtar with single rep i find one cpr and one recharger to be enough. it's not really stable, but the stuff runs long enough for my taste.
Bibosikus
Air
#18 - 2012-03-17 20:51:52 UTC
The Ishtar is a fabulous boat, but to fly it in low or null it really is more skill-intensive than other HACs.

The 'tar was designed as a sentry boat. The bonus to Drone Control Range (rather clumsily described in ship info as "Scout and Heavy Drone operation range") is the key. Being able to float Ogre II's out to 80km+ is ludicrous, but having the ability to drop 5 Warden II's and pop a frigate at 80km 4 seconds later is what this bonus is all about.

Following on, there's the prospect of Sentry Drone Damage rigs, which are the only rigs affecting (sentry) drone damage. Unfortunately, they also heavily nerf the Ishtar's already crappy CPU resources.

Getting Drones Rigging to L5 really does give you more room for different fittings - CPU is that tight.

There is a trade-off, as always. The most effective dps Ishtar has two T1 Damage rigs, a bay full of sentries and light drones, a couple of Omnidirectional Tracking Links and a suitable active tank as well as speed. Hungry's fit (thread already linked) is about as good as you can get in that respect.

However, there is also a case for the passive shield Ishtar which you mentioned. The reason being that this particular boat can tank the buggery out of Serpentis and/or Guristas because it has high native shield resistances to kin/therm, and can fit a shield tank and *still* maintain a relatively small signature. But fitting this is only necessary if you're up against very serious dps - we're talking 1000+. There are slightly pimped-fit fully passive shield Ishtars that can tank 2000+ dps kin/therm. Problem is, they normally use Heavy Drones and take hours to complete a site. Plus, they are sitting targets when jumping through low/null sec.

Below this, the armor/active tank Ishtar with speed is a better bet. Faster, and safer in low & null.

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Gorenaire
Theosophical Society
#19 - 2012-03-18 20:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gorenaire
The first few things that comes to my mind are :

- Dont use faction mods on a rating/plexing ship if you plan to go into hostile territory, if you dont have good enough fitting skills, train those skills first, and replace faction by T2. The only faction mods you should have are cheap armor/shield resist, that gives you same resist than T2 and cost a few mill each

- the moment you undock with your ratting/plexing ship, direction null or low, you want to be mentally ready to loose it because thats what will happen sooner or later.

- you should have the cloak online all the times. you dont want to stay at a safe waiting for enough cap to online the cloak. If someone enters the system and you can see something other than a shuttle on scan, you just warp to a safe, cloak and wait there. So in your setup, plan to keep your cloack online, if it does not fit, change your fitting or get better fitting skills, simple as that.

- your main concern is other players, pve by itself is not a big danger if you stick to doable plex in an ishtar.

- try your setup on the test server, its very important. You dont want to do15 jumps to 0.0 to realize that your setup sucks and you have to go back in empire to correct it

- im not sure how familiar you re , with doing ninja pve in others people territory, but it is far different and much more dangerous than high sec missioning or even doing pve in 0.0 with a lot of blue around. This requires a lot of awareness and a good knowledge of games mechanics/. your are on your own, and you want to avoid npc 0.0 stations as much as possible.

- If its a new thing for you , i would advise you to just start with things like belt rating in a bomber in 0.0, that would give you a decent start on how to move around and thats less costly to loose than a fully T2 fitted hac.

- using lower and higher class WH to go from empire to null is also an option.

- if i was you , i would go for 0.0 instead of low sec. The ending might be the same than in 0.0 ( your ships being blown up ) but the rewards are higher, also in low sec pipes are more used than 0.0 for most of em, so more annoying people trying to get a shot at you.

- in 0.0 and low, your main danger will come from jumping trough systems using gates, thats why having a MWD is usefull, it will allow you to run back to the gate . That does not mean you will make it but at least you will have a chance, also like i said before you should always have the cloak online to be able to use the mwd/cloak trick .

- if you do ninja pve only fo rmoney, do it in a WH rather than in 0.0 or low, its less risky and still fun. Dont use an ishtar, drones and sleepers are not friends. go for a drake and run C2 or if 2 accounts , use 2 drakes and run C3 anom,

- also plan on anchoring a few secure containers around when you find an area you like, you dont want to loose your ship with lots of valuable stuff inside. let it in the cans and bring it back with th right ship/
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#20 - 2012-03-19 11:08:26 UTC
First off.... drop the AB for a MWD and make sure you have a cloak on there and onlined. Without this you are likely to be toast to the first gate camp or prober in system. You can also use a MWD in deadspace pockets now to break range / kite in an effective way.

Here is a tried and tested fit for combat sites that does not cost the earth and can kite / tank almost anything. There are a couple of exceptions or thigns to watch out for...

1) Webbing towers - make sure you drop these REALLY quickly
2) Spider drones - move at 5000m/s and web you. Get your light drones on these instantly. Use the light auto cannons.

Other than that you can kite rats to your heart's content and run reppers as and when you need them. You can also drop cans at the warp-in and move way off it - and spam directional to see if someone is coming in on you. If they are then warp off and cloak.

Being a long way off the warp-in also helps if you get tackled; you have time to get your EC-600's on the tackle before their buddies warp and and burn to you.

[Ishtar, LePlexChatton]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Reflective Plating II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Medium Armor Repairer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Large Peroxide Capacitor Power Cell
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe I
Improved Cloaking Device II
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II, EMP S

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Warrior II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Hammerhead II x5

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com