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Is the Titan nerf announced for April CCP kowtowing to GOONs?
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#181 - 2012-03-16 17:16:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
"bloobloo 30 dudes can't kill 400 with zero losses"


Your the one crying to ccp to change the rules. Hell I am not even in null sec nor do I have any desire to ever own a titan. I just think its funny that you guys don't want to risk your supercap fleet so ccp is going to change the rules for you.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#182 - 2012-03-16 17:23:15 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Andski wrote:
"bloobloo 30 dudes can't kill 400 with zero losses"


Your the one crying to ccp to change the rules. Hell I am not even in null sec nor do I have any desire to ever own a titan. I just think its funny that you guys don't want to risk your supercap fleet so ccp is going to change the rules for you.


thank you for your input on nullsec warfare, hisec incursion runner

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#183 - 2012-03-16 17:32:06 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Andski wrote:
"bloobloo 30 dudes can't kill 400 with zero losses"
Your the one crying to ccp to change the rules. Hell I am not even in null sec nor do I have any desire to ever own a titan. I just think its funny that you guys don't want to risk your supercap fleet so ccp is going to change the rules for you.
You're confusing them with the guys who are opposing this change: it's the opponents that don't want to risk their supercap fleets.

Everyone else is saying that those fleets should be far more vulnerable than they are.
Takashi Kaeda
Perkone
Caldari State
#184 - 2012-03-16 17:34:13 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Andski wrote:
"bloobloo 30 dudes can't kill 400 with zero losses"


Your the one crying to ccp to change the rules. Hell I am not even in null sec nor do I have any desire to ever own a titan. I just think its funny that you guys don't want to risk your supercap fleet so ccp is going to change the rules for you.


You realize that's just a party line from team tech, no?

No one risks supers. Find me one BR where supers engaged a superior number of supers knowingly. If you have more supers than the other dude, you deploy them. If not, you don't deploy them. That right there is the 'depth' of super engagements.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2012-03-16 17:39:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnny Marzetti
All conspiracy theories aside, there actually is one group of players that CCP favors over all others: the ones who haven't subscribed yet. So, which vision of Eve is going to appeal more to them: the one where you can make a difference from day one, or the one where you can pay for a subscription for years while you mine or rat and build up the skills you need to fly the one ship that matters in the whole game?

Everybody who's been following these threads knows the relative size of the Titan population, but CCP has another number that we don't, as far as I know: the number of trial accounts that don't subscribe after their trial period expires. I bet that's a number that CCP cares more about than the percentage of Titan pilots who say they will ragequit over this.

And it doesn't even matter that Titan pilots are such a small part of the population because the fact is, none of you are going to unsubscribe just because of this. Not a single one. You might unsubscribe for some other reason and blame it on this, or this might be the final straw for you, but you would have unsubbed anyway. If you've been enjoying Eve until now and have that much invested in it, you are not going to quit over this. I am calling you on it, you big babies, commit publicly to quitting once this goes through so I can mock you mercilessly when you don't.

CCP is a business, you giant manchildren, and a publicly announced rebalancing is not the same as a single staff member quietly helping his friends cheat. Recycle your tinfoil. On second thought, don't. The level of crazy expressed by some of you is just hilarious, and honestly most goons really do enjoy being the boogiemen of Eve without having to really do anything to earn the title.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2012-03-16 17:56:01 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:

Show me a battleship anywhere that can't take out a fleet of rowboats. Only time a rowboat ever did significant damage to a ship was to the Carl Vincent & it was not at battle coms. If they had any warning they woulda blown the suicide rag Headz outa the ocean even if 50 came at them at once & a Battle ship woulda soaked up the explosion easily


lol I'd like to see Millennium Challenge 2002 suicide boats attempt that in RL the simulation has a big gapeing flaw in it.
OK a Titan is a larger ship maybe think of it as a Supercarrier like the Ronald Reagun or ??? still only examples you see of super capitols being taken out are from 2 meter vents or the Millenium Falcon yet both the Death stars did have small gun placements


Can you post some info or provide some links about the time a US Navy carrier group was cyno'd in on top of a bunch of rowboats, because I think that's the particular real world military event that would help us best understand the current situation in Eve.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#187 - 2012-03-16 18:15:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Andski wrote:
"bloobloo 30 dudes can't kill 400 with zero losses"
Your the one crying to ccp to change the rules. Hell I am not even in null sec nor do I have any desire to ever own a titan. I just think its funny that you guys don't want to risk your supercap fleet so ccp is going to change the rules for you.
You're confusing them with the guys who are opposing this change: it's the opponents that don't want to risk their supercap fleets.

Everyone else is saying that those fleets should be far more vulnerable than they are.


The only way to risk a supercap fleet is to actually use it. Do you agree?

Is it the cfc or their enemies that are using supercaps now? The answers to these questions will tell you who is willing to risk their capital fleet and who is not.

The change makes it so titans can't attack as well, It doesn't change their defenses. Yes this means they can't defend themselves from smaller ships but the change makes it less likely that we will see titans used (and therefore risked) in combat.

Personally I want to see more of the big ships blown up in epic battles that used to happen in null sec. I don't want to see null sec turn into "epic" battles where everyone lost 3 drakes.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#188 - 2012-03-16 18:21:02 UTC
Takashi Kaeda wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Andski wrote:
"bloobloo 30 dudes can't kill 400 with zero losses"


Your the one crying to ccp to change the rules. Hell I am not even in null sec nor do I have any desire to ever own a titan. I just think its funny that you guys don't want to risk your supercap fleet so ccp is going to change the rules for you.


You realize that's just a party line from team tech, no?

No one risks supers. Find me one BR where supers engaged a superior number of supers knowingly. If you have more supers than the other dude, you deploy them. If not, you don't deploy them. That right there is the 'depth' of super engagements.


Null sec is supposed to be the place where you can force the battle or take someones territory.

Its pretty clear, goons want to kick raiden out but they don't want to risk their supers. So they get ccp to change the rules.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#189 - 2012-03-16 18:21:35 UTC
interesting, you believe that dropping tracking titans is a "risk"

you are aware that watchlists exist, correct?

fyi we've been using supercaps almost daily

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#190 - 2012-03-16 19:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: knobber Jobbler
Cearain wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Cearain wrote:


No one is saying they are disqualified from fighting. They can right now. Noob ships can fight too. The issue seems to be that they want to be immune from titans.


Its the opposite, Titans the I win button in a group, they don't need support fleets. Right now, you can have a nice big fleet fight and all of a sudden 50 Titans appear and blap everything with impunity. Nothing can stop them, there is no answer to that other than 51 Titans.

Its not fun, its not interesting, its not 'elite' pvp, its only available to a very small minority of players, who've either bought the ISK, botted for for the ISK or are part of a massive alliance and/or have been given the ISK by another alliance. Its also not what CCP envisaged with Titans (notice how Caldari have a Titan, not 50 and they are an NPC state).

The changes people want are simply to mean that Titans are no longer the I win button, are not longer something you can just call in 20, 30 or more, every time you start loosing a sub cap fight which is what happens now.

I think more people would be happy with Titans if they mechanics with them worked, think of a modern day carrier battle group; the Carrier is the centre piece of a fleet of 10 or more combat ships with a dozen support ships. If Titans worked more like that they'd be a pretty cool weapon in EVE.

But they don't, right now, if you have a fleet fight in EVE, theres always a group of Titans three jumps away from destroying anything you bring the fight.




So you would lose a 70 mil isk bc and learn not to fight that group anymore. I don't see the issue. This happens all the time in eve. People bring cruisers to frigate fights, bcs to cruisers fights, carriers to bs fights etc. Just avoid them and fight others who you capable of going toe to toe with.

IMO Winning Sov in null sec has little to do with elite or fun pvp. Making it so all the ships are more equal to eachother is not going to change that. It will just make it more of a pure numbers game with even less strategy.



You clearly don't understand that you do not pick what the enemy drops on you and null sec right now is all about owning titans. Most players can fly bc's and bs's and that us what ccp intended for null warfare, then you have dreads and carriers for structure work. But if someone drops 50 titans on you, there is no answer to that. Eve is based on rock, paper scissors. Titans are outside of this.

Right now certain groupss in null could pretty much take out the Sov assets of any other alliance and prevent any new groups getting into null. They only don't because it would mean months of structure grinding. It's making eve stale.

You realise that apart from two alliances, every null sev entity right now is just the same groups recycled since 2006? How is that good for eve? Or ccps pockets.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2012-03-16 19:04:21 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Its pretty clear, goons want to kick raiden out but they don't want to risk their supers. So they get ccp to change the rules.


We are not invading Tenal.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#192 - 2012-03-16 19:04:30 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Pheusia wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Finally why bring battlecruisers to fight titans?


Because people bring Titans to fight Battlecruisers.



That is part of eve being cold and harsh. If you want to fight a assault frigate in a noob ship you can. But you will pay the price. CCP won't protect you.



And seeing your overpowered pwnmobile getting nerfed from under you without compensation is also part of EVE being cold and harsh

:hth:
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#193 - 2012-03-16 19:15:26 UTC
Andski wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Andski wrote:
"bloobloo 30 dudes can't kill 400 with zero losses"


Your the one crying to ccp to change the rules. Hell I am not even in null sec nor do I have any desire to ever own a titan. I just think its funny that you guys don't want to risk your supercap fleet so ccp is going to change the rules for you.


thank you for your input on nullsec warfare, hisec incursion runner



Now your argument is that I am a "hisec incursion runner." Ok thats false, but it is another example of how you just keep trying to change the topic each time you get shot down.

I find it funny that Goons who go around laughing because miners can’t do anything to stop getting ganked by goons, are supposedly so concerned that drakes are getting ganked by titans.

The reason your upset is because its *goon* drakes getting ganked. And so instead of fighting with your own cap fleet you just get ccp to make it stop.

You are pushing for this change because it will give you an in game edge against raiden. Plenty of goons have been gloating about this all over the internet, so its pretty late to deny it.

If the roles were reversed and raiden had vast hordes of newbs that goons were staving off with the use of titans you would likely not want this change.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#194 - 2012-03-16 19:20:00 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Doc Severide wrote:
So who exactly twisted your arm and forced you to do this? In a game where you have NO control over what the developers are going to do in the future? And 100 Billion what? Fake in GAME money. Big loss...


You are assuming he didn't spend agreat deal in PLEXs to finance this Titan (which I hear many titan pilots have) which translates into RL money indirectly. If I spent RL plex & a year + of trainning I'd be howling too. NERF BAT is a horrible tool and never should be used IMHO a better solution would be buffing something or some other counter. All these NERFs reminds me of the eye for an eye arguement (look at my toon not only am I blind my tin foil hat has a receding line ):

Not assuming anything I thought of that already. In the last 3 years I have spent almost $4000.00 in GTC's so I don't have to grind for ISK. If the game goes belly up someday it's my loss and my problem not anyone elses or their fault either....
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#195 - 2012-03-16 19:25:56 UTC
Cearain wrote:
The only way to risk a supercap fleet is to actually use it. Do you agree?
Only if there is any risk in using it. There isn't.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#196 - 2012-03-16 19:27:28 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Cearain wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Cearain wrote:


No one is saying they are disqualified from fighting. They can right now. Noob ships can fight too. The issue seems to be that they want to be immune from titans.


Its the opposite, Titans the I win button in a group, they don't need support fleets. Right now, you can have a nice big fleet fight and all of a sudden 50 Titans appear and blap everything with impunity. Nothing can stop them, there is no answer to that other than 51 Titans.

Its not fun, its not interesting, its not 'elite' pvp, its only available to a very small minority of players, who've either bought the ISK, botted for for the ISK or are part of a massive alliance and/or have been given the ISK by another alliance. Its also not what CCP envisaged with Titans (notice how Caldari have a Titan, not 50 and they are an NPC state).

The changes people want are simply to mean that Titans are no longer the I win button, are not longer something you can just call in 20, 30 or more, every time you start loosing a sub cap fight which is what happens now.

I think more people would be happy with Titans if they mechanics with them worked, think of a modern day carrier battle group; the Carrier is the centre piece of a fleet of 10 or more combat ships with a dozen support ships. If Titans worked more like that they'd be a pretty cool weapon in EVE.

But they don't, right now, if you have a fleet fight in EVE, theres always a group of Titans three jumps away from destroying anything you bring the fight.




So you would lose a 70 mil isk bc and learn not to fight that group anymore. I don't see the issue. This happens all the time in eve. People bring cruisers to frigate fights, bcs to cruisers fights, carriers to bs fights etc. Just avoid them and fight others who you capable of going toe to toe with.

IMO Winning Sov in null sec has little to do with elite or fun pvp. Making it so all the ships are more equal to eachother is not going to change that. It will just make it more of a pure numbers game with even less strategy.



You clearly don't understand that you do not pick what the enemy drops on you and null sec right now is all about owning titans. Most players can fly bc's and bs's and that us what ccp intended for null warfare, then you have dreads and carriers for structure work. But if someone drops 50 titans on you, there is no answer to that. Eve is based on rock, paper scissors. Titans are outside of this.

Right now certain groupss in null could pretty much take out the Sov assets of any other alliance and prevent any new groups getting into null. They only don't because it would mean months of structure grinding. It's making eve stale.

You realise that apart from two alliances, every null sev entity right now is just the same groups recycled since 2006? How is that good for eve? Or ccps pockets.



I never said you can pick what your opponent drops on you. It may be a titan it might be 500 drakes. If you can't fight what they will drop on you don't fight them. You can choose not to fight them. If you want mechanisms for fair fights then push for that.


If your lack of titans means you can't hold null sec sov space (or take space you want) there are other responses other than asking ccp to change the rules so you win. You can start getting your own titan fleet together and working with other alliances who have thier own titan fleets. Null sec politics should be more than just who can recruit the most newbs.

CCP supposedly "intended" to build a sandbox. To the extent ccp is forcing players to use all the tools the way they want them to use them, and no other, then they are no longer making a sandbox, but laying down railroad tracks.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#197 - 2012-03-16 19:27:35 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Now your argument is that I am a "hisec incursion runner." Ok thats false, but it is another example of how you just keep trying to change the topic each time you get shot down.

I find it funny that Goons who go around laughing because miners can’t do anything to stop getting ganked by goons, are supposedly so concerned that drakes are getting ganked by titans.

The reason your upset is because its *goon* drakes getting ganked. And so instead of fighting with your own cap fleet you just get ccp to make it stop.

You are pushing for this change because it will give you an in game edge against raiden. Plenty of goons have been gloating about this all over the internet, so its pretty late to deny it.

If the roles were reversed and raiden had vast hordes of newbs that goons were staving off with the use of titans you would likely not want this change.


yes, 20 titans killing 500 subcaps (and not just drakes, holy hell you are dumb, this includes dictors, one of the only two shiptypes that can tackle titans) is the same as dumb mining bots getting ganked in hisec

please don't comment on 0.0 warfare, you've clearly never left hisec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#198 - 2012-03-16 19:29:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cearain wrote:
The only way to risk a supercap fleet is to actually use it. Do you agree?
Only if there is any risk in using it. There isn't.



Sure there is. Just because you currently wont lose a titan to a gang of drakes doesn't mean they can't be killed.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#199 - 2012-03-16 19:34:50 UTC
And to imagine it was only two pages ago that someone asked why more alliances don't bother posting on eve general discussion
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#200 - 2012-03-16 19:36:47 UTC
Andski wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Now your argument is that I am a "hisec incursion runner." Ok thats false, but it is another example of how you just keep trying to change the topic each time you get shot down.

I find it funny that Goons who go around laughing because miners can’t do anything to stop getting ganked by goons, are supposedly so concerned that drakes are getting ganked by titans.

The reason your upset is because its *goon* drakes getting ganked. And so instead of fighting with your own cap fleet you just get ccp to make it stop.

You are pushing for this change because it will give you an in game edge against raiden. Plenty of goons have been gloating about this all over the internet, so its pretty late to deny it.

If the roles were reversed and raiden had vast hordes of newbs that goons were staving off with the use of titans you would likely not want this change.


yes, 20 titans killing 500 subcaps (and not just drakes, holy hell you are dumb, this includes dictors, one of the only two shiptypes that can tackle titans) is the same as dumb mining bots getting ganked in hisec

please don't comment on 0.0 warfare, you've clearly never left hisec



Why do you say I am dumb? I wasn't one of the people piloting a mwd drake against a group of 20 titans and sticking around until I popped.

If this was a cfc drake fleet why didn't they bring thier own titans? Tippia says you can bring them with no risk. It sounds like you guys know this group always drops titans. So why not fight them? Is it some sort of code of e-honor?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815