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Is the Titan nerf announced for April CCP kowtowing to GOONs?
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#161 - 2012-03-15 22:10:55 UTC
Kai Tel wrote:
What happened to the rest of you people in null sec? Are you just that Mittani's dude's lap pets now?

If that were the case we wouldn't be fighting.

I mean, shoot blues erryday, but no one would form fleets to go and shoot blues.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sverige Pahis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-03-15 22:44:00 UTC
The irony is that half of these npc corp raiden alts fail to realise that the big bad goonies aren't outnumbering you and your horrible coalition, pretty much every fight i've been in lately has been more or less balanced numerically.
Sverige Pahis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-03-15 22:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Sverige Pahis
I guess what I'm saying is once this patch goes through and you lose all your space you can't blame goons or CCP or anyone else for losing your crutch. Instead look at working with your allies and organising better so you don't have 5 different pretty uncoordinated fleets running around in system so when we do have another fairly balanced (numbers-wise) fight you can have any chance at all in winning without having to resort to just dropping supers.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#164 - 2012-03-15 23:01:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Sverige Pahis wrote:
I guess what I'm saying is once this patch goes through and you lose all your space you can't blame goons or CCP or anyone else for losing your crutch. Instead look at working with your allies and organising better so you don't have 5 different pretty uncoordinated fleets running around in system so when we do have another fairly balanced (numbers-wise) fight you can have any chance at all in winning without having to resort to just dropping supers.

What the heck are you talking about? The proof it's all because of goons is that they'll "unfairly" lose all their space.

But no worrys, the Mittani said we aren't invading, just roaming... with capital ships...


Goons, you can always blame them

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
M'nu
Vard School of Cryo Cuisine
#165 - 2012-03-15 23:32:35 UTC
Avid Bumhumper wrote:
Well, if their plan was to get a bunch of "Bitter Vets" to unsub, they will probably succeed with this one. Oops

Have already heard quite a few people in corp talking about dropping their Titan accounts, simply no point in logging them on now, kind of like Super Coffins.

If your going to make expensive ships useless, why not simply remove them from the game and reimburse the ABSURD skill points that people had to invest when the ships were actually useful.
Or, at least let them dock so that people can actually use the character for something else.

You have listened to the screaming mob, most of which probably have never seen a Titan, much less been killed by one and made them once again useless.

What is a bittervet to train for now? Assault frigs?
To many people, Supercaps were part of the Endgame of Eve, yet you continue to make them a liability to own, at least for anyone that can't field 100 of them.
Now I have to respec my planned Titan pilot to something else, but since dread tracking is no better than a Titan, and they have no way to defend themselves against anything smaller than a moon, I'm not sure why. On the other hand, at least they can dock....

So I must congratulate you CCP, from the looks of the forums, it looks like you've gotten the carebears upset as well.

Now, if you could do something to **** off the pirates, you'd be batting a thousand! Oops



Stuff?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#166 - 2012-03-15 23:37:27 UTC
Anyway, the endgame of eve is all about the structure shoot and the meta win.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
The Vastator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2012-03-16 03:08:52 UTC
Esmilis99 wrote:
Totally not OP

lock - web - puff, lock - web - puff


http://irc.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12174191

All those ships intrepid fielded can't pay for the mods on each titan.
The Vastator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2012-03-16 03:14:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:


I disagree... you do buy bigger ships to shat on smaller ones. That is what a Titan is for many players maybe not for you I guess but bigger is better is always prevalent to a certain extent in RL Navy... are you going to try to tell me a battle ship cannot take down a rowboat? It does easily with a M-16 or Naval shotguns kept in ship lockers.



A titan is made for anti-capital work, not anti-everything.

WTF are you talking about? A maxed out dread easily deals twice the dps of a titan trying to attain max EHP and is 1/50 of the price.
CaptainFalcon07
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#169 - 2012-03-16 03:42:41 UTC
I personally think Supercapitals were a big mistake in the first place.

CCP couldn't think of a clear role other than bashing capital ships. As a result capital ships have become largely obsolete and less used in 0.0 warfare.

Regular capital ships are balanced in their vulnerability to subcaps, but act as a proper force multiplier.

A Dreadnought can do the job of 10-20 battleship in destroying capital ships and structures Not to mention they are invulnerable to the ECM often mounted on towers that frustrate subcaps greatly. They lack the capability to hit subcaps and are certainly vulnerable while in siege mode.

A carrier can do the job of gang of logistics. In triage mode can have the possible to tank a large gang at the cost of what little comparative offensive power it has. They lack the dps to be any real threat. Fighters are easy to kill and negate much of their dps from poor tracking.

Supercapitals in the current state step on the territories of Capital ships and are completely superior.

Neither Titan or Supercarrier have the limitations of being stuck from siege or triage modes. They are naturally Ewar immune and have massive EHP to withstand subcap alpha fleets.

Titans can do the job of dreads while have much better survivability along with having jump bridge, powerful bonuses, etc.

Supercarriers, are not as good at repairing but are certainly better at surviving making it notable to use as logistic ships while having massive dps from fighter bombers.


The best solution would be to simply remove Supercapitals from the game and reimburse the players with the cost of the ships and reimburse the SP.

Any modules fitted on their supercapital will be transferred to a station of their choice.

Supercapital related skills and modules such as remote ECM burst, doomsdays, and normal jump bridges will be reimbursed for isk and SP.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#170 - 2012-03-16 07:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: knobber Jobbler
I don't think supercaps or Titans were a mistake, just the mechanics around them was. There are so many ways ccp could have used some basic mechanics to restrict there use in numbers or acquisition.

Pheusia wrote:
I love the way some people talk as if it were only Goons that wanted the hideously overpowered titan blobs rebalanced.


I think its everyone but pl and raiden that want them gone/nerfed. Sod it, just remove them. Will upset about 1500 people. That's like 0.025% of eve players.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#171 - 2012-03-16 15:02:41 UTC
Mass Effect and life has it all wrong.

According to CCP and the goon school of thought, singular Frigates shoulda been able to gank those massive capital reapers 1 time.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#172 - 2012-03-16 15:05:33 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
I don't think supercaps or Titans were a mistake, just the mechanics around them was. There are so many ways ccp could have used some basic mechanics to restrict there use in numbers or acquisition.

Pheusia wrote:
I love the way some people talk as if it were only Goons that wanted the hideously overpowered titan blobs rebalanced.


I think its everyone but pl and raiden that want them gone/nerfed. Sod it, just remove them. Will upset about 1500 people. That's like 0.025% of eve players.


Remove supers and CCP will have a rebellion and mass account exodus on their hands that will make your goonswarm lead incarna protest look like a casual get together of drama queens looking for a circle jerk.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Vladimir Plinnikov
Plinnikov Family Holdings
#173 - 2012-03-16 15:58:12 UTC
I certainly don't have the skill points to understand the whole ins and outs of capital fleets, nor the massive corporation or alliance that would use them.

It does seem though that that the reaction to this change is slightly knee jerk. Won't reducing the tracking penalty on super capitol ships to bring them more inline with the plan laid out with dreadnaughts not lead to more fleet battles needing to rely on a combined arms approach. That would seem to me like a better and more realistic approach to fleet battle.

Frigates and destroyers to counter the smaller threats that the capitols can't track, battleships to hit the battlecruisers, and cruisers, while friendly cruisers pick targets of opportunity and screen for the main body? As a relatively new player to Eve reading about his change makes me kind of want to alliance up and fly a cruiser in a large fleet action where said cruiser might actually do some good rather than just be another target to go "pop".

I may be way off base here, but I'm just calling it as I currently perceive it.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#174 - 2012-03-16 16:11:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Ocih wrote:
[quote=Ladie Harlot]It's an ethics thing.

Maybe one day EVE will slip up and I will be the benefactor of one of these "broken mechanics" that don't cost someone else thier game. Goonswarm will be on my cleaning list Smile



Well, in Eve this just means you gave guns and bullets to people that have no conscience, no other fun than use any broken rule just to ruin your game because hey there's no one to stop them? (US guys must know something about this with all those kids killing each other on your streets right?-well who's fault?)

Easy now to make themselves victims, they head shot themselves since day one when they started posting their uber elite pvp skills and mocking the frigate blown by their drones, the cruiser one shot at 400km, the carrier DD'd, one shot bs/BC orbiting their guns etc.
Wait, the Supercap camping lowsec gates and annihilating everything passing through, then the same scrub gets here crying "wtf did you do with mah drone bay CCP?"


Just like many other game broken mechanics, and the only responsible ones for this are who? - players

@poster above: rage quitters always quit, one day or another, for a crap reason or another but always because of a crap reason, just because their childless attitude. Let them go play wow, game's average intelligence would grow up by a big margin, we would very certainly get rid of a lot of bots also.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#175 - 2012-03-16 17:00:48 UTC
Andski wrote:
Cearain wrote:
If you are going to ignore the real world than why are you arguing about sanity? It may not happen in the internet spaceship universe you imagine but that doesn't mean I’m insane if it happens in the one I dream of.

Also look at the Spanish versus the indigenous people of South America. There are slews of examples throughout history where better technology means one soldier can be worth hundreds.

Also your difficulties about getting hundreds of people in drakes doesn't mean it should be an automatic I win button if you succeed. The herd mentality of eve is hardly something that should be promoted even more.

Finally why bring battlecruisers to fight titans? Because every noob in your alliance wants to feel they are just as powerful as players who have invested years of time in the game? Why does the game have to be such that a battlecruiser fleet can beat a titan fleet and the titans can do nothing but bring herds of battcruisers themselves?



hmm yes CCP should reverse this nerf and just rewrite their marketing literature

"eve online: the sandbox where you are absolutely irrelevant until you are flying the most expensive ships"


I see you had to drop your original line of argument as it pretty squarely backfired.

So you resort to exageration.

Heres one for you:

"eve online: where it's irrelevant what you fly; its just a matter of numbers"

Heres another:

"eve online: where if you can't beat your opponent without risking your cap fleet, you can whine and get ccp to change the rules."

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#176 - 2012-03-16 17:03:42 UTC
you mean numbers might just be the most important thing in a multiplayer game? i am shocked

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#177 - 2012-03-16 17:04:47 UTC
"bloobloo 30 dudes can't kill 400 with zero losses"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Hellanna
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#178 - 2012-03-16 17:09:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hellanna
For every person that drops an account/quits because of this nerf, two accounts that quit because of how OP titans will be returning.

Good nerf as far as titans are concerned.


Will this allow smaller entities to take and HOLD space? That is questionable. It's easy to drop an SBU is an unclaimed system. Much harder to make it through timers when you're trying to take it next to any larger alliance. You either align yourself with a powerblock, Rent, or live in NPC space. Hopefully CCP will fix Sov so 4 blocks aren't controlling 90% of space. It should be far more expensive then it is now to hold 20+ systems. One of the problems is not allowing multiple stations in a single system. There also needs to be destructible stations that have more HP then anything yet seen by multiples (this will make titans still have their place, structure shooting and supercap vs supercap battles)

Anyway im rambling.

Good change.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#179 - 2012-03-16 17:11:12 UTC
Cearain wrote:
"eve online: where it's irrelevant what you fly; its just a matter of numbers"
Funnily enough, that's pretty much exactly what the supercap revamp will change…
Taiwanistan
#180 - 2012-03-16 17:11:12 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
knobber Jobbler wrote:
I don't think supercaps or Titans were a mistake, just the mechanics around them was. There are so many ways ccp could have used some basic mechanics to restrict there use in numbers or acquisition.

Pheusia wrote:
I love the way some people talk as if it were only Goons that wanted the hideously overpowered titan blobs rebalanced.


I think its everyone but pl and raiden that want them gone/nerfed. Sod it, just remove them. Will upset about 1500 people. That's like 0.025% of eve players.


Remove supers and CCP will have a rebellion and mass account exodus on their hands that will make your goonswarm lead incarna protest look like a casual get together of drama queens looking for a circle jerk.

hey look a barbie lover in a titan thread

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."