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I think Tengu is too much powerful
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#81 - 2012-03-16 09:13:12 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:

I knew someone would bring this up, but I thought it would be Liang, his forum persona has grown old, stubborn and bitter, and he's lost touch with the average Eve pilot.

No, because T2 mods are much cheaper and easier to train for than a maxed link Loki pilot. This is obvious.


I wouldn't say that I'm old, stubborn, and bitter. I'd say that I'm more willing than ever to be adaptable to the way that the game is actually played. As opposed to how people play EFT Online.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
lacal
Meltdown Technologies
#82 - 2012-03-16 09:31:32 UTC
So how do I link just my T3 kills - I'm struggling to find a way on evekill, BC/griefwatch?

I think I'm at about 40 or so tengu kills and someone was shouting that they wanted killboard "proof"
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#83 - 2012-03-16 09:59:24 UTC
lacal wrote:
I think I'm at about 40 or so tengu kills and someone was shouting that they wanted killboard "proof"
*Raises hand*

Well first off, WOW! That is one damn impressive killboard. As if you needed the affirmation, but you sir are a hero!

In particular we are looking for one specific type of killmail. A solo kill on a 100mnAB Tengu. Something that looks rather similar to this. Very nicely done! Sure there were NPCs on the mail, but it's still damn impressive. Could you possibly regale us with details?

(Must go back to look at killboard to drool. Honestly how are there that many stupidly blinged people in one system?)
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-03-16 10:27:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Gypsio III wrote:
I knew someone would bring this up, but I thought it would be Liang, his forum persona has grown old, stubborn and bitter, and he's lost touch with the average Eve pilot.


Good thing none of that applies to me!

Quote:
No, because T2 mods are much cheaper and easier to train for than a maxed link Loki pilot. This is obvious.


At which point does SP and isk investment become too much to confer an actual advantage? Why are force multipliers past T2 fitting bad?
lacal
Meltdown Technologies
#85 - 2012-03-16 10:41:12 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
lacal wrote:
I think I'm at about 40 or so tengu kills and someone was shouting that they wanted killboard "proof"
*Raises hand*

Well first off, WOW! That is one damn impressive killboard. As if you needed the affirmation, but you sir are a hero!

In particular we are looking for one specific type of killmail. A solo kill on a 100mnAB Tengu. Something that looks rather similar to this. Very nicely done! Sure there were NPCs on the mail, but it's still damn impressive. Could you possibly regale us with details?

(Must go back to look at killboard to drool. Honestly how are there that many stupidly blinged people in one system?)



Why thank you, but I'm no hero, just the worst kind of pirate who enjoys killing defenceless folk :)

As for details, there aren't any really - I run with the covert sub on my loki, so dps is meh but its a medium neut that really screws up tengus - so even if they are at 50km from me, approach, MWD on, point and run up and smash them in the face :)

Align time for a 100MN AB tengu is shocking so if you can manoeuvre to where you want to be, using your cloak, its easy enough to be able to make the engagement yours aka land a web.

I prefer active tank for 1vs1 ing tengus - if its a cloakie tengu you only need to be able to tank 300dps (ish) non-cloakie this rises to 750ish, but as long as you can tank that using a combination of blue pills and heat then your golden (complex med shield boosters can be OH'd for a loooong time)

All that being said there are people that I wont even attempt to engage after a quick BC check of their stats, but a cloak gives you the luxury of picking your targets
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#86 - 2012-03-16 12:35:24 UTC
Out of curiousity what is your Loki fit Liang, where do you fit that neut, I simply cant find a way to get a decent 7 high slot Loki, do you drop a turret??
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#87 - 2012-03-16 14:14:47 UTC
So the whine is that 100mn tengu is "fail-safe".

Imo it should be that way bcz no doubt they have to sacrifice a lot for that. I d rather whine that Proteus and Legion has no such gtfo fail-safe fits.

An advice: just do not engage tengu if t flies past 40kms and spits missiles, simply try to disengage. EVE pvp is about engagement circumstances 50%.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-03-16 15:31:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Out of curiousity what is your Loki fit Liang, where do you fit that neut, I simply cant find a way to get a decent 7 high slot Loki, do you drop a turret??


I don't know Liang's fit, just posting this to show the subsystem configuration to get 6 guns and a neut on a Loki.

[Loki, 6 turrets+neut]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I


Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

Still plenty of fitting left over.

Kaikka Carel wrote:
I d rather whine that Proteus and Legion has no such gtfo fail-safe fits.


There are 100MN AB Legion fits out there.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#89 - 2012-03-16 15:34:03 UTC
Kaikka Carel wrote:
So the whine is that 100mn tengu is "fail-safe".

Imo it should be that way bcz no doubt they have to sacrifice a lot for that. [...]


not really

I should buy an Ishtar.
lacal
Meltdown Technologies
#90 - 2012-03-16 15:43:51 UTC
[Loki, How to Kill a Tengu]
Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pithum C-Type Invulnerability Field
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Gistum B-Type 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

'Smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
True Sansha Medium Energy Neutralizer

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Loki Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#91 - 2012-03-16 16:19:31 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Out of curiousity what is your Loki fit Liang, where do you fit that neut, I simply cant find a way to get a decent 7 high slot Loki, do you drop a turret??


I don't know Liang's fit, just posting this to show the subsystem configuration to get 6 guns and a neut on a Loki.

[Loki, 6 turrets+neut]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]
[empty low slot]

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I


Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

Still plenty of fitting left over.

Kaikka Carel wrote:
I d rather whine that Proteus and Legion has no such gtfo fail-safe fits.


There are 100MN AB Legion fits out there.



Doesn't really work though, not enough mids to fit a decent shield tank+webs, and the complete wrong sub for armour tanking.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#92 - 2012-03-16 16:45:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Lelob wrote:
The key to beating a tengu is fairly simple. Just keep it scrammed and it will die.


Wrong.

Because a regular pvp solo Tengu will use 100MN AB, good luck at scraming that one orbiting you at max pin range (40+faction point?) with 3200m/s (+ scram = no effect on AB's right?)

People don't understand Tengu strengths of weaknesses most times and rabble whatsoever when it's clearly not Tengu sub the problem.

Problem 1- heavy missiles time flight: the most stupid ammo in the game, there where you have to completely untank another ship of same size to get the same range but never the same dmg, you pick a missile spewer with rof/missile speed or dmg, add missile speed rigs, lots of bcu's.

Problem 2- be able to fit larger modules it's not an ability, it's a lack of game restrictions. C'mon you put a gun with real bullets in a kids hand what are you focking thinking it's going to happen? -kitty the pony will be sanctified?

So, restrict size modules per ship size whatsoever you want to name it, remove completely ships missile speed bonus unless torp ships and the big Tengu overpowering stuff is gone.
Once that Tengu has to trade off a bit chunk of it's tank to hit at far distances, use MWD to run further than 1KM/s, it will no longer be considered as overpowered, but don't expect a 3B isk fit to be easy to take down ^^
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-03-16 17:02:40 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Kaikka Carel wrote:
I d rather whine that Proteus and Legion has no such gtfo fail-safe fits.


There are 100MN AB Legion fits out there.


100MN AB Tengus that are efficient, fun to fly yes there are obvioulsy

100MN AB Legions are dam efficient too but are less versatile than Tengu due to range possibilities of Tengu

100MN AB Loki is possible and seems also efficient (on paper, not tested yet)

100MN AB Proteus, dam thing already caped out with just guns and AB. Cloacky sub means no drones, meh dps and tank unless you use slaves let me tell you this is an every day joke compared with tengu or loki.

Proteus is still the less versatile of them all, sure can spit a hell of a BS dps once ontop of your face with an HAC tank, but it's an extreme fit trading far too much stuff for a small advantage in solo/small engagements only.
Can't fit a decent stable sniper fit and when you're done just look at the price of your ship/what you can do with, it's ridiculous.
Noisrevbus
#94 - 2012-03-17 15:46:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Noisrevbus
SInce Tanya made an overview, i'll repost my old tired one as well.

Tengu:
General purpose PvP DPS-ship with projectible DPS (100mn et. al.), Exploration-plexing thanks to cloak and maintained decent projected DPS and mission-oriented PvE once again thanks to reliable projected DPS. Fair use in group-oriented PvE as well, as general DPS-support.

Legion:
HAM-brick PvP (100mn), more tank, less projection, still transversal-free missiles, Neut-support in high-profile medium engagements (faction BS, hotdrop-oriented action as seen in WH, NPC-null and Low), Incursion and Wormhole group-PvE.

Loki:
Best links, most common Link-alt; best allround hybrid skirmish/ew-support (nano, sniping, webbing solo-ish), Secondary-tackle support (100mn) in high-profile medium engagements. Marginal use in PvE, mainly relegated to support-roles beyond the odd solo exploration.

Proteus:
Best raw tank-spank potential (high profile lowsec-style solo/pair PvP), only Information Recon-booster capable of cloaking with Recons (main source of EW-support in most gangs or mainline ship in specialist gangs), Primary-tackle support (100mn) in high-profile medium engagements. Marginal use in PvE (though i belive it's more than decent in an exploration fit or with a drone-turret mix).

It goes out to everyone:
If you want to do the things one ship is better at you should probably train for that ship - instead of complaining the ship you trained do other things than you intend to, or don't do them as well.

What do you want to do?
Solo close-regional PvP? Legion or Proteus.
Solo far-regional PvP? Tengu or Loki.
Boosting? Always a Loki, Tengu for heavy-shield, Legion for heavy-armor, Proteus for Cloaky action.
Group/fleet far-regional PvP? Tengu with Loki and Proteus in various support roles.
Ggroup/fleet close-regional PvP? Loki, Proteus and Legion in various support roles.
Solo PvE? Tengu, then Proteus, Legion and Loki.
Group PvE? Legion, then Tengu with Proteus and Loki in various support roles.

Popularity and statistics:
General purpose or mainline roles tend to include more volume while trend tend to attract more volume and a sizable pool tend to draw more volume from itself. Popularity is not the same as performance, and performance is only but one modifier in a series of things that all affect popularity.
shal ri
Short Bus Window Licker
#95 - 2012-03-17 18:42:46 UTC
It's funny when ppl whine about the tengu. The ship is not overpowered. The issue is whiners want to not think in pvp as if this was pve. Spare me the "missiles are op" bit. Last I looked it was really hard for me to kill frigs . That being said there are several ships and fleets I won't look at when in my tengu. I fight What I think I can kill due to my exp and skill.

If its a 3-4 bill tengu ur not going to kill it in ur solo bc. I saw a Vindi vid the other day, he killed 5-7man gang solo.they should nerf that to. What about the Mach? Thing moves like a cruiser with bs tank and dps. Nerf it. There are many ways to kill a tengu with 100mn ab and they are stated in older posts. Eve is not an easy game to pvp in and it shouldn't be. This is not an fps, u don't aim and shoot without thinking

It's about fitting the right ship for the right job and thinking about how to do the job right. The human brain can do a lot of things, thinking is one of them. You should try it sometime OP.
Signal11th
#96 - 2012-03-20 15:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
a duel webbed loki can catch and kill a 100ab tengu, you need to overheat your own mwd occasionally to keep in range and you also need faction/deadspace webs, the difficult part is getting within web range in the first place, if you manage it he's dead.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Borun Tal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2012-03-20 18:35:46 UTC
Kyoko Yamakawa wrote:
every time i met Tengu, i got killed. what kind of ship can fight Tengu? Even it's tech 3 cruiser, it still is a Cruiser. This bloody Cruiser broken the balance of this game. it can fight most ships but capital ships. Cry


So get a Tengu, start winning, stop whining. You wasted bandwidth to whine about this?
Infinity Horizon
Infinity Horizon Corporationss
#98 - 2012-03-21 06:11:10 UTC
It's called a neutralizer my friend. 1 neut and all you tengu related issues disappearPiratePirate

YEAH !! I knew training for a Harpy will one day pay off :))
Siren mu
Happy Derping Microbiologists
#99 - 2012-03-29 21:49:05 UTC
Yes you should totally be able to solo a 3B pimp T3 in your 60 million hurricane, otherwise the game is not balanced Roll
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#100 - 2012-04-26 21:34:58 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
lacal wrote:
I think I'm at about 40 or so tengu kills and someone was shouting that they wanted killboard "proof"
*Raises hand*

Well first off, WOW! That is one damn impressive killboard. As if you needed the affirmation, but you sir are a hero!

In particular we are looking for one specific type of killmail. A solo kill on a 100mnAB Tengu. Something that looks rather similar to this. Very nicely done! Sure there were NPCs on the mail, but it's still damn impressive. Could you possibly regale us with details?

(Must go back to look at killboard to drool. Honestly how are there that many stupidly blinged people in one system?)


Just because you can't kill it solo doesn't mean it's overpowered. Here for all you cry babies, check out this over powered manticore and cerberus, maybe they should nurf those next?

Manti eats small gangs