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[Speculation] Tier-less Frigates (Tech 1)

Author
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-03-13 11:39:08 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Froggy Storm wrote:
Id like to se a frig/dessy sized logi ship. Get some market for those c type small rr modules out there. Not to mention opening up a whole world of fun doing L3/4s with a gang of T1 frigs like its a miniature incusion fleet.

Something like 4h 3m 2l
for three Rr a cap xfer in highs A capboost battery and charger in mids and two lows for either a plate dc local rep or more cap relays.


Nah a logi frigate should be a T2 ship that is actually able to tank at the same time. Maybe launch new frigates and the t1s can be logi too but a bit bad :P


Maybe a new T2 Dessy job as a frig tender. Give it only2 turret mounts with the rest utility for reps and transfers. Enough tank to last a few min underfire and or get away. Could revolutionize the AF gang model with a smallis fastish logi.

And who doesn't want to see frig gangs back as a common thing

Do the role and dest bonuses the same as the T2 logi cruiser of same type.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-03-13 11:53:49 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:

Caldari
Bantam - Industrial
Condor - Attack vessel
Griffin - Support vessel
Heron - Probing ship
Kestrel - Bombardment ship
Merlin - Combat vessel


Fixed how I think it should be.


Hmm that might be but the condor have a range bonus which makes it the only one of these with the ability to be a bombardment ship. The Kestrel is kinda tanky for a frig so it matches the Combat ships description. Tho all the other bombardment ships are also the races stealth bomber so maybe the Kestrel will be it too. Its all up to ccp becaue these slots and bonuses will change.


I prefer the fixed descriptions above.

The Condor may have a range bonus, but it's also easily the fastest Caldari frigate, and hence the obvious choice for an attack-type vessel. The Kestrel isn't tanky at all, really, certainly not when compared to the Merlin at least. The ability to fit four SMLs on it would make it the archetypical "bombardment" ship, although clearly it needs more CPU.

The Merlin is the classic all-round combat vessel, but with a Caldari theme - so slowish but agile, with flexibility of range and a solid tank.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-03-13 15:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalha Saldana
Froggy Storm wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
Froggy Storm wrote:
Id like to se a frig/dessy sized logi ship. Get some market for those c type small rr modules out there. Not to mention opening up a whole world of fun doing L3/4s with a gang of T1 frigs like its a miniature incusion fleet.

Something like 4h 3m 2l
for three Rr a cap xfer in highs A capboost battery and charger in mids and two lows for either a plate dc local rep or more cap relays.


Nah a logi frigate should be a T2 ship that is actually able to tank at the same time. Maybe launch new frigates and the t1s can be logi too but a bit bad :P


Maybe a new T2 Dessy job as a frig tender. Give it only2 turret mounts with the rest utility for reps and transfers. Enough tank to last a few min underfire and or get away. Could revolutionize the AF gang model with a smallis fastish logi.

And who doesn't want to see frig gangs back as a common thing

Do the role and dest bonuses the same as the T2 logi cruiser of same type.


I dont think destroyers fit the role of logi because they are designed to have a lot high slots and be all offensive, assault vessel style. A dessie logi would have maybe 6-8 light reps, unstable cap and not much tank which would not be what frigate gangs need.

I would rather see something like a frigate with 4-5 higs, 5mids, 3 low (and swap mid/low for armor tanks) where you have 3 reps capstable for minmatar/gallente with a spare high for unstable reps etc and 3-4 reps + 1-2 cap transfer for amarr/caldari.
They should have a bonus making them able to use medium sized reps just like todays logi can use large reps. These could then be paired up with the t1 cruiser logis who use medium sized transfers and reps.
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-03-13 18:20:37 UTC
One trap I'm hoping they don't fall into is the notion that each race needs a frigate to use X. So, the idea of "industry, exploration, support, attack/tackle, bombardment (really, long-range fire), and general combat," while keeping with the racial themes on how to go about doing those things. To me this would be especially true in the "bombardment" category, where rather than just 4x missile boats it would be far more interesting to have the Caldari apply the Kestrel, but the Gallente hull does get turned into a drone boat, Minnies a specialized arty platform (maybe RoF bonus but lackluster agility, so it doens't turn into an AC-based murderboat), and similar for Amarr with beams. All of them end up having long-ranged (for frigates) weapons with good damage output, but with more variety than a Kestrel, a Kestrel that looks like a Gallente ship, a Kestrel that looks like an Amarran ship, and a Kestrel that looks like a Minnie ship.

Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-03-13 18:34:07 UTC
Thelron wrote:
One trap I'm hoping they don't fall into is the notion that each race needs a frigate to use X. So, the idea of "industry, exploration, support, attack/tackle, bombardment (really, long-range fire), and general combat," while keeping with the racial themes on how to go about doing those things. To me this would be especially true in the "bombardment" category, where rather than just 4x missile boats it would be far more interesting to have the Caldari apply the Kestrel, but the Gallente hull does get turned into a drone boat, Minnies a specialized arty platform (maybe RoF bonus but lackluster agility, so it doens't turn into an AC-based murderboat), and similar for Amarr with beams. All of them end up having long-ranged (for frigates) weapons with good damage output, but with more variety than a Kestrel, a Kestrel that looks like a Gallente ship, a Kestrel that looks like an Amarran ship, and a Kestrel that looks like a Minnie ship.


I agree that its nice to have differences between the races but it also makes sense that frigates, which are the baseline to all ships have all types for newer players to play around with. This is not the case with any other class of ships and im fine with it.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-03-13 18:57:14 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Will we see even better entry level tackle choices with the Slasher or Atron?



If there's one T1 frigate that I think is completely impossible to catch by other means than smarties activation on gates is well this Atron, it's just a fumy speedy gonzalez this little thing. (so many high/low/null sec travels for lols with it)

But back on topic, as like every other frigate lacks of PG/CPU and slots to equip/fit stuff, so not worthy to use a ship that cant fit more than one overdrive and a long point with 0 tank or other mods (just for the example), probably in the hands of an older player but it's not their purpose, they should be easily capable of fit completely with T1 mods and low skills (lvl3's), actually they're not.

Making ships that fit a role rather than a silly "tier" stuff no one understands quite well the reason why whatsoever, it's a very good thing.
One they are easier to identify and choose for a specific role because "x" role = "y" number of slots/pg/cpu, then change slots order high/med/low and base scan/mass/agility/speed to stick with racial aptitudes/lines.

Thing is that once you can fit a ship like T1 frigs for a specific task that will ask noobies a certain training for them and also piloting accordingly to their racial characteristics, then you start learn to pilot your ships from day 1, you have the same fitting abilities than any other race ship of the same type but it's your skilling and piloting knowledge that will make the difference.

I think this is much better as game basis than new players in rifters they can barely fit (and rifter is by far the frigate that you can completely fit) versus old players in faction fitted dramiels at 12Km/s.
Of course this will still happen but, I hope, this will make a lot more ships be used and bring variety on the field rather than what I'm over tired of seeing witch is canes/drakes/maelstroms/abbadons/tengus/tornados and lokis.

kyrv
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-03-15 21:55:30 UTC
How about this stupendous idea!

A number of harvested natural powers and wave forms from K-space in wormhole given to a frigate sphere launcher a specialised frigate which drops on of these effects the player within on given variables including the enemy!

Role class (idk, don't know anything about k-space)

-slowing effect
-armour/shield effect
-speed effect

-Blocker sphere launcher creates a negative force in the wake of the pilots ship catapulting him/her a hundred km's (can be calibrated with inertia to give different results) such a sphere would stop people from entering, like a force field?

-Sphere's which shrink which give off these effects worsen the positive/negative bonuses unless hit with energy transfers and upon which might cause a singularity (takes minutes/hours) which will connect to the closest cynosural field (open gates to hostile cyno's)

-a probe launcher that has the ability to power a constant field via transporters.
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-03-16 04:17:19 UTC
I am told to fly the rifter for PvP. It's a great ship. But, ......... it's the only ship? Due to the tier system it seems that way. Oh sure I can cross train, but I am limited sp-wise as a newb. Can't go 3-4 directions at once for T2 weapon systems plus all the core skills, and racial ship command skills I need to make fits really work


If ccp gets rid of the "tier" system it'd be awesome. We'd see the rifter as a good all rounder as we do today, but perhaps it fills the more of the "brawler" role. Maybe the slasher becomes a mini interceptor, and the breacher can be fit for either rockets or longer range missiles, both with the slots and pg/cpu to actually fit them well

Hopefully ccp does do away with the tier system, but also hopefully they don't embrace whole heartily the "roles" they laid out. Would be a shame to see them replace the restrictive tier system with a role system that locks each and every frig into one role and one way to fit it. An example of that would be giving the breacher a mid and low, with the pd/cpu to support it, yet give the damage bonus only to rockets, and some other stupid limitation, like a hyperionish low lock range preventing kiting fits with standard missiles.
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