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Null PVE, Mach-Tengu?
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Arkanon Nerevar
UK Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2012-03-15 22:25:39 UTC
Hey all, need some advice from all you experianced null dwellers
if you had to pick just one ship for anom farming and running plexes (for now just guristas) and you could seriously pimp it out and devoute a lot of SP training towards maxing it which would you choose for maximum isk generation/overall performance, thinking between mach or tengu, would like to hear your opinions and such, thanks for your timeBig smile

Trust Not in God, but Have Faith in Antimatter
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-03-15 22:47:32 UTC
Mach can deliver way more DPS than tengu. Mach can tank high-end PvE sites reasonably well, but often relies on DPS-tanking ... rapid removal of ships that produce the incoming DPS. Mach cannot be setup to warp cloaked, or to ignore bubbles. Mach is a very attractive target. Mach is sexy ship. Well setup mach is expensive. Fairly high commitment to train for high-end mach.

Tengu does not deliver as much DPS. Tengu can tank any PvE site. Tengu can be configured to warp cloaked and, if ya wants, to be immune to bubbles in nullsec. Tengu is the most versatile PvE ship in eve (I know there'll be ppl who will argue this ... but hey there are always ppl who will argue anything). Tengu is mundane, and boring ... and oh so effective and useful. Well setup tengu is expensive. Less intensive training load to lfy high-end tengu skills.

I hisec mission-plex run in tengu, or rattlesnake, or machariel. I lowsec / nullsec mission-plex run in tengu, tengu, or tengu (or wolf for pirate arcs because they only allow frigate / destroyer hulls).

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-03-15 23:04:34 UTC
If you own the system, it's upgraded, and you have a POS there where you can reship when neuts/reds enter the system I say go for the Mach. If your just out hunting sites to run then go with a Tengu.
drdxie
#4 - 2012-03-16 00:08:52 UTC
I use a Tengu in sansha null. I find it very nice to be far away from the rats and shoot them so just in case a red comes into the system, i am not scrammed by the NPC's as I don't need to get near them. Align and warp time is also quick, I know a mach is pretty quick also, but you will closer to the NPC. Also I don't need to bring in extra ammo, alliance fleets are drakes or geddon's, so have lots of missiles. My 2 isk Smile

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Holy Shizznit
Albireo Solem
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2012-03-16 09:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Holy Shizznit
I have the same dillema as the OP. I am currently in Guristas null space, 1 day away from Machariel (all support skills are done except t2 weapons, will go for arty most likelly) and 40 days away from sitting in a Tengu.

My question is: is it worth it to spend the money on a Machariel at this point or continue ratting with my current Maelstrom until Tengu is ready? Maelstrom cant provide my needs for pvp ships, since I play more or less casual, 8mil / tick is the best i got (20-21mil per hour)...


Edit: forgot to add we own the system and its upgraded
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-03-16 10:12:06 UTC
Best ratting ship in nul is the Thanatos, hands down.

Out DPS and tanks anything else, and would be cheaper than a well fitted tengu or mach. If you have to go for a subcap though then the mach or even a Golem would do well.

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Holy Shizznit
Albireo Solem
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2012-03-16 10:28:04 UTC
Thanks for the answer, Thanatos is out of the question, doesnt fit my future plans, at least not for the next 3 months, I am trying my best to train skills that will help me PVE and pvp in the same time, since small scale to medium scale pvp is what I like... Machariel will be next stop, same skills to upgrade as Mael pvp
Tenga Halaris
Galactic Traders Union
#8 - 2012-03-16 11:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenga Halaris
Mach is great, but against Guri, stick to the Tengu.

a) Sensor strength and ECCM

Machariel gets jammed more often, with an ECCM fitted the Tengu, you still have a way better Tank for Plex and Anoms and 67 strength (one ECCM) to 26 of the Mach.

b) Ammo/ DMG-Types

Mach shoots Therm (Phased Plasma) against Guri, while the Tengu uses T2 Trauma Missiles (Kin), which hit well against Guri, cause it's their primary weakness.

c) Distance

Some BS orbit at 50 km, so you must run around in the Mach to project the DPS due to severe DMG-Loss in Fallof. Tengu just orbits anything with AB capstable and you only mission is to press F1 and count volleys on ships farther away.

[Tengu, Tengu Guri]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pith C-Type Ballistic Deflection Field
Pith C-Type Ballistic Deflection Field
ECCM - Gravimetric II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I

Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

capstable
840 DPS with 2x 5% dmg imps.
900 DPS Tank
68.6 sensor strength
113 km "optimal"


2ct
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#9 - 2012-03-16 12:06:53 UTC
Tenga Halaris wrote:
Mach is great, but against Guri, stick to the Tengu.

a) Sensor strength and ECCM

Machariel gets jammed more often, with an ECCM fitted the Tengu, you still have a way better Tank for Plex and Anoms and 67 strength (one ECCM) to 26 of the Mach.

b) Ammo/ DMG-Types

Mach shoots Therm (Phased Plasma) against Guri, while the Tengu uses T2 Trauma Missiles (Kin), which hit well against Guri, cause it's their primary weakness.

c) Distance

Some BS orbit at 50 km, so you must run around in the Mach to project the DPS due to severe DMG-Loss in Fallof. Tengu just orbits anything with AB capstable and you only mission is to press F1 and count volleys on ships farther away.

[Tengu, Tengu Guri]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pith C-Type Ballistic Deflection Field
Pith C-Type Ballistic Deflection Field
ECCM - Gravimetric II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I

Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

capstable
840 DPS with 2x 5% dmg imps.
900 DPS Tank
68.6 sensor strength
113 km "optimal"


2ct


1: eccm doing anoms is a waste of slot. you get jammed once per 1 or 2 anoms.

2: you still have very high dmg even though guristas have lowest resistance kinetic.

3: it's not 50km but around 32 for guristas. you basically travel in one direction popping smallest->biggest targets.