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Is the Titan nerf announced for April CCP kowtowing to GOONs?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2012-03-15 14:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Right. But making the largest, strongest and most dangerous cap ship the one that takes out subcaps is a bad, bad idea.
Yes, and that's why they're fixing that, leaving the subcap-killery to the carriers.

Cearain wrote:
Finally why bring battlecruisers to fight titans?
Because they're supposed to be there. Just because there are titans on the field doesn't mean that other ships are suddenly supposed to be disqualified from participating.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#122 - 2012-03-15 14:32:18 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Finally why bring battlecruisers to fight titans?


Because people bring Titans to fight Battlecruisers.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#123 - 2012-03-15 14:33:14 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Klown Walk wrote:
Still needs to be a cap ship that destroys sub caps or it will just be about numbers.


Brilliant mind at work here.

Why are there so many people that think "Gosh if I only had a ship that would let me defeat the blob, I would has a happy," but they can't seem to look one step further and realize, "Gosh, it would sure suck to have to fight off a blob of those anti-blob ships."

It. Will. Always. Be. About. Numbers.

2 > 1

It's one of those fundamental things about the universe that can't be legislated, coded, whined about or persuaded to change.




Yeah so why not make all ships equal. A noob ship should be just a powerful as a super cap. Roll

Every battle shouldn't just be about numbers. It should also be about the quality of the ships brought/risked and quality of the pilots in them.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#124 - 2012-03-15 14:35:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Right. But making the largest, strongest and most dangerous cap ship the one that takes out subcaps is a bad, bad idea.
Yes, and that's why they're fixing that, leaving the subcap-killery to the carriers.

Cearain wrote:
Finally why bring battlecruisers to fight titans?
Because they're supposed to be there. Just because there are titans on the field doesn't mean that other ships are suddenly supposed to be disqualified from participating.



No one is saying they are disqualified from fighting. They can right now. Noob ships can fight too. The issue seems to be that they want to be immune from titans.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#125 - 2012-03-15 14:38:17 UTC
Pheusia wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Finally why bring battlecruisers to fight titans?


Because people bring Titans to fight Battlecruisers.



That is part of eve being cold and harsh. If you want to fight a assault frigate in a noob ship you can. But you will pay the price. CCP won't protect you.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#126 - 2012-03-15 14:43:29 UTC
Cearain wrote:
The issue seems to be that they want to be immune from titans.
No, it's quite the opposite: titans want to be immune from BCs, often for the most irrelevant and asinine reasons (eg. “they cost a lot” or “they are end-game” or “they require years of training”).
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#127 - 2012-03-15 14:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Tippia wrote:
Cearain wrote:
The issue seems to be that they want to be immune from titans.
No, it's quite the opposite: titans want to be immune from BCs, often for the most irrelevant and asinine reasons (eg. “they cost a lot” or “they are end-game” or “they require years of training”).



So the issue is whether bcs will be able to lock titans? I though it was whether titans will be able to lock bcs.

In that case yes bcs should be able to lock and shoot at titans.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2012-03-15 14:55:11 UTC
Cearain wrote:


No one is saying they are disqualified from fighting. They can right now. Noob ships can fight too. The issue seems to be that they want to be immune from titans.


Its the opposite, Titans the I win button in a group, they don't need support fleets. Right now, you can have a nice big fleet fight and all of a sudden 50 Titans appear and blap everything with impunity. Nothing can stop them, there is no answer to that other than 51 Titans.

Its not fun, its not interesting, its not 'elite' pvp, its only available to a very small minority of players, who've either bought the ISK, botted for for the ISK or are part of a massive alliance and/or have been given the ISK by another alliance. Its also not what CCP envisaged with Titans (notice how Caldari have a Titan, not 50 and they are an NPC state).

The changes people want are simply to mean that Titans are no longer the I win button, are not longer something you can just call in 20, 30 or more, every time you start loosing a sub cap fight which is what happens now.

I think more people would be happy with Titans if they mechanics with them worked, think of a modern day carrier battle group; the Carrier is the centre piece of a fleet of 10 or more combat ships with a dozen support ships. If Titans worked more like that they'd be a pretty cool weapon in EVE.

But they don't, right now, if you have a fleet fight in EVE, theres always a group of Titans three jumps away from destroying anything you bring the fight.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#129 - 2012-03-15 14:57:56 UTC
Cearain wrote:
So the issue is whether bcs will be able to lock titans? I though it was whether titans will be able to lock bcs.
The issue is that, when you up the numbers a bit, titans have such an easy time dealing with BCs (and any subcap, really), even without a proper support fleet, that they might as well be immune to them.

This immunity is taken away by making it harder for the titans to deal with subcaps. The tracking and signature changes are the first step towards this goal — more things are to come. At the end of the day, titans will be absolutely the wrong tool for killing subcaps, no matter how many you manage to scrounge up.
Dave Horizon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#130 - 2012-03-15 15:06:39 UTC
Pheusia wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Finally why bring battlecruisers to fight titans?


Because people bring Titans to fight Battlecruisers.


Because people are using cap stable MWD drakes with sigs of a carrier mmkay?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#131 - 2012-03-15 15:11:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cearain wrote:
So the issue is whether bcs will be able to lock titans? I though it was whether titans will be able to lock bcs.
The issue is that, when you up the numbers a bit, titans have such an easy time dealing with BCs (and any subcap, really), even without a proper support fleet, that they might as well be immune to them.

This immunity is taken away by making it harder for the titans to deal with subcaps. The tracking and signature changes are the first step towards this goal — more things are to come. At the end of the day, titans will be absolutely the wrong tool for killing subcaps, no matter how many you manage to scrounge up.



And all of eve will be a matter of bringing a bigger blob of newbs.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#132 - 2012-03-15 15:25:28 UTC
Cearain wrote:
And all of eve will be a matter of bringing a bigger blob of newbs.
…which will then be annihilated by the proper newb-blob-removal tool. What people are crying over is that this tool won't be a titan and that the new one will require that they massage their cranial fillings — both are horrible crimes against humanity, of course.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#133 - 2012-03-15 15:33:43 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Cearain wrote:


No one is saying they are disqualified from fighting. They can right now. Noob ships can fight too. The issue seems to be that they want to be immune from titans.


Its the opposite, Titans the I win button in a group, they don't need support fleets. Right now, you can have a nice big fleet fight and all of a sudden 50 Titans appear and blap everything with impunity. Nothing can stop them, there is no answer to that other than 51 Titans.

Its not fun, its not interesting, its not 'elite' pvp, its only available to a very small minority of players, who've either bought the ISK, botted for for the ISK or are part of a massive alliance and/or have been given the ISK by another alliance. Its also not what CCP envisaged with Titans (notice how Caldari have a Titan, not 50 and they are an NPC state).

The changes people want are simply to mean that Titans are no longer the I win button, are not longer something you can just call in 20, 30 or more, every time you start loosing a sub cap fight which is what happens now.

I think more people would be happy with Titans if they mechanics with them worked, think of a modern day carrier battle group; the Carrier is the centre piece of a fleet of 10 or more combat ships with a dozen support ships. If Titans worked more like that they'd be a pretty cool weapon in EVE.

But they don't, right now, if you have a fleet fight in EVE, theres always a group of Titans three jumps away from destroying anything you bring the fight.




So you would lose a 70 mil isk bc and learn not to fight that group anymore. I don't see the issue. This happens all the time in eve. People bring cruisers to frigate fights, bcs to cruisers fights, carriers to bs fights etc. Just avoid them and fight others who you capable of going toe to toe with.

IMO Winning Sov in null sec has little to do with elite or fun pvp. Making it so all the ships are more equal to eachother is not going to change that. It will just make it more of a pure numbers game with even less strategy.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
#134 - 2012-03-15 15:35:22 UTC
Dave Horizon wrote:
Pheusia wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Finally why bring battlecruisers to fight titans?


Because people bring Titans to fight Battlecruisers.


Because people are using cap stable MWD drakes with sigs of a carrier mmkay?


A.) 3km sig radius, ~90m/s. This is a _______________
B.) 2km sig radius, ~1400m/s. This is a _______________

One of these is a Carrier, one of these is a Battlecruiser ... can you identify which is which? An XL turret doesn't need to! Are you smarter than a turret? Take the test!

Answers on page 8
Flyberius
F'n'F Inc
#135 - 2012-03-15 15:39:42 UTC
I am always left thinking, "First world problems" when reading these boards.

Personally the less titans the better. Those Titan blobs look stupid.

Anyway, why no scale up the range on titan guns so they can attack from 1000 of klicks?

That would throw up some interesting tactics.
Dave Horizon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#136 - 2012-03-15 15:52:26 UTC
Aloe Cloveris wrote:
Dave Horizon wrote:
Pheusia wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Finally why bring battlecruisers to fight titans?


Because people bring Titans to fight Battlecruisers.


Because people are using cap stable MWD drakes with sigs of a carrier mmkay?


A.) 3km sig radius, ~90m/s. This is a _______________
B.) 2km sig radius, ~1400m/s. This is a _______________

One of these is a Carrier, one of these is a Battlecruiser ... can you identify which is which? An XL turret doesn't need to! Are you smarter than a turret? Take the test!

Answers on page 8


Drake speed is 1038m/s mmkay (goons dont use snake implants with there drakes) w/ sig radius of 2.876km
random carrier, base speed 113m/s, w/ sig radius of (drum roll) 2.865km. oh sorry you lose :(

So yes a drake is going 9 times quicker than the carrier but can XL turrets still hit.... Yes they can because its still f**king huge.
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2012-03-15 16:03:12 UTC
Wait, I just realized this thread was created by the same "DarthNefarius" sockpuppet that I proposed "Forum Moron Bingo" about a few weeks back.

Lets see if we win this time:

* Stupid Name (Bonus points for it referencing an entire other franchise, using that other franchise's made up words)
* NPC Corp
* Obvious Sockpuppet, probably of an anti-blob hypocrite
* Barely legible "English"
* Ranting about the big bad Goonies
* Conspiracy Theories
* Not a single like despite posting raw meat for the Anti-Blob Blob hypocrites
* More than 3 logical fallacies in the OP

IF we take our free square in the middle ("Poster is a pubbie") then not only did we get bingo here, we have the rare coveted Double Forum Moron Bingo."

What do we win? Lots of laughs and delicious tears! YAY!
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2012-03-15 16:25:35 UTC
Ganagati wrote:
More like the Titan nerf is trying to do something about average 0.0 battles looking like this: http://i.imgur.com/CY6x4.jpg

well. let's say this was not an "average 0.0 battle". Todays average 0.0 battle consists of 100-200 Tier 3 BC, BS, logi, interceptors, inerdictors, HAC ships from each side + some support.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#139 - 2012-03-15 17:41:16 UTC
People crying about losing thier BC to a titan have no idea the history of EVE. Whole fleets, in a POS, 500+ BattleShips gone in the blink of an eye, no lock required.

Cry Moar was what we were told.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#140 - 2012-03-15 17:44:58 UTC
Paying 50 bil isk for a ship that can only target 3 ships at once and not even fire on them.

Goonswarm: not out to ruin Eve... just out to ruin Titan pilot's Eve.

God I hope they forget to pay their next sov bil and become the victim of a mass exodus of 80% of their member base.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!