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Why inflation? - Because were experts at internet spaceships now.

Author
Ghoest
#1 - 2012-03-15 04:47:54 UTC
If most of us are better at internet spaceships than we used to be guess what happens - we farm more money.
Thus inflation.

If most of us are better at internet spaceships than we used to be guess what happens - we make less mistakes that lose our own stuff.
Thus inflation.

And if more of us have realized that less fighting = more isk = more power then more of us dont fight.
Thus inflation.



You cant stop inflation when everyone is good at getting rich.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

Roh Voleto
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-03-15 04:54:48 UTC
Yep, CCP Soundwave is right: It's all the customers fault. Never mind the bumbling fools behind the curtain.
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-03-15 04:57:09 UTC
inflation would mean that items across the board are getting more expensive. meaning the value of isk is going down compared to a standard. Take the gold standard for example. Currently I am not sure what standard you are comparing isk's value to. And I seriously doubt we are experiencing inflation when the market changes by region.

Something clever

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#4 - 2012-03-15 05:04:37 UTC
If you use PLEX as the gold standard, it is easy to see inflation. Minerals can not be a gold standard, since there is for all intents and purposes an infinite supply: short term there will be a delay in the time required for supply to rise. Minerals will deflate while miners value their time at less than L4 missions.

Inflation only means the value of the currency is falling. Items that devalue faster than the currency may appear to be getting cheaper, but that is only a symptom of oversupply,
Cindy Marco
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-03-15 05:09:13 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
inflation would mean that items across the board are getting more expensive. meaning the value of isk is going down compared to a standard. Take the gold standard for example. Currently I am not sure what standard you are comparing isk's value to. And I seriously doubt we are experiencing inflation when the market changes by region.


You compare the value of isk, to the old value of isk.


  • Pick a base year (starting point)
  • Build a market basket
  • See how the isk value of said basket has changed
  • ????
  • Profit
Roh Voleto
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-03-15 05:09:54 UTC
Some people think that PLEX is the closest thing EVE has to gold, but in reality PLEX has a tangible value and is subject to use based market forces, rather than being being something only people with big noses and compulsive hoarding disorder care about.

The real "gold-standard" of EVE are bounty payouts, and what killing a single rat will buy you.

Based on this,I can say very certain: That NPC seeded skill books had the same price for the last two years. Cool
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-03-15 05:35:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Short reason why inflation is topical:

CSM reported in the December minutes the inflation figures for the game:

Quote:
In general the EVE economy is in good shape. All macro indicators are within acceptable parameters, fluctuations are minimal and participation in the economy is going up. Most online games experience constant inflation, where the developers are constantly adding new items at higher prices which end up with devaluing both the currency used in the game and older items. EVE shows a different behavior, where over a few years there was a continued deflation (following the introduction of tech II invention) but over the past year and a half there has been good stability with a mild inflation (around 1% per month). The Consumer Price Index is monitored very closely and due to the amount of information about the economy available to CCP the index is updated monthly. EVE’s has a well-functioning economy as people can buy more with their ISK which allows both older players to advance and new players to start off in an easier manner.


People as a result jumped onto a propoganda band wagon that incursions are therefore the main cause for inflation as a result. And have used it for a while now as one of the main reasons to nerf them. Likewise as a result they have been incorrectly assuming plex increases have occured solely for the same reason.

Yet CCP recently validated this point that incursions are not the main problem:

CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.


CCP Soundwave wrote:
Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.


Zircon Dasher wrote:
Fun Facts:

In the month of Feb:


~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts

~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses
~32T in NPC bounty


So of the combined Incursion/Missions/Ratting/etc ISK faucet

~81% comes from non-Incursion activity



CCP Soundwave wrote:
Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.


As a result everyone is now scrambling to best defend their own patch (still including incursions) as a result of the "perceived" changes CCP will likley apply to combat interpreted inflationary problems.

So its kind of a kneejerk reaction that a global reduction in bounties and some tweaks to sinks which together may not be so significant a change to make inflation less of a concern on a macro scale by CCP is causing some people headaches.

As a result you could say it might have backfired a little on those who originally started the propoganda as a result?
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#8 - 2012-03-15 06:46:41 UTC
Inflation= Economics . a persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency ( opposed to deflation).

Only that has been raised on long term is PLEX. Other products have gone up and down. Mostly changes on game mechanics causes product price changes.

I would say that in game prices deflate but plex inflate so what is actually happening if you do not use plex.

People have more isk to use so they can use it for out of game item as plex. In game item prices does not raise, because people are manufacturing those as cheap as they can and selling with small profits without adjusting prices to PLEX price changes.
IsTheOpOver
#9 - 2012-03-15 07:11:56 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
... stuff about Inflation= Economics...


Dude, your eyebrow (is missing)!
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#10 - 2012-03-15 07:19:16 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
What we're really seeing here is everyone is SCARED SHITLESS of a nerf of THIER isk or mineral faucets & everyone is SCREAMING NERF THE OTHER GUY NOT ME preempitively trying to bolster thier arguements... lol SCREAM HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR!!!
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-15 09:23:55 UTC
the gripe about incursions has nothing to do with inflation, it's the comparatively low risk in contrast with nullsec anomalies and wormhole sleeper sites

i hope this has provided some valuable insight in this discussion

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#12 - 2012-03-15 10:11:31 UTC
Apparently, we're all experts at spelling now, too.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-03-15 11:04:29 UTC
Andski wrote:
the gripe about incursions has nothing to do with inflation, it's the comparatively low risk in contrast with nullsec anomalies and wormhole sleeper sites

i hope this has provided some valuable insight in this discussion


Not really.

Seriously, where have you been for the last few months. You know full well all the numerous calls linking inflation with incursions as the main culprit.

And I did say it was "one of the main reasons" people where trying to attache this label.

Some interesting statements and views you might want to explain however?

Andski wrote:
Sleepers don't have bounties, so there's no direct ISK injection unlike incursions.

Purge high-sec incursions entirely. Done.


...

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Andski wrote:
the price spike on lowends is a result of a nerf to drone anoms

the price spike on PLEX is, however, easily attributed to incursions

get real moron



Really?

Prove it. Show me the numbers.
Show me CCP's calculations on this subject.

Anything else is just propaganda.


---

Rational Plex spike reasons.


Interesting watching Goons back peddling with their rhetoric however in an attempt to remove the taint of their BS.
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-03-15 11:06:45 UTC
Andski wrote:
the gripe about incursions has nothing to do with inflation, it's the comparatively low risk in contrast with nullsec anomalies and wormhole sleeper sites

i hope this has provided some valuable insight in this discussion



Now you are saying that but before it was all about the :isk faucet:

This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Ghoest
#15 - 2012-03-15 13:13:46 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
What we're really seeing here is everyone is SCARED SHITLESS of a nerf of THIER isk or mineral faucets & everyone is SCREAMING NERF THE OTHER GUY NOT ME preempitively trying to bolster thier arguements... lol SCREAM HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR!!!


Many people are scared of losing their income I think.

But the problem(if you even consider it a problem) isnt that the faucets has grown bigger.
The problem is just that as whole were earning more and more relative to how much we burn - by choice.

Our mentality has become basically the opposite of the average American/British/whatever consumer.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are

Lexmana
#16 - 2012-03-15 13:16:19 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Andski wrote:
the gripe about incursions has nothing to do with inflation, it's the comparatively low risk in contrast with nullsec anomalies and wormhole sleeper sites

i hope this has provided some valuable insight in this discussion



Now you are saying that but before it was all about the :isk faucet:


It is the most efficient way most players can inject ISK into the economy. And that with almost zero risk too. Now you can argue that it is actually good for the game if you want to look like a fool.
Doomhowler II Augustus
Incestuous Cult of Paranoid Swamp People
#17 - 2012-03-15 13:25:06 UTC
don't bother looking for a 'gold standard' in eve, there is none neither there should be tbh.

the sinks guarantee the ultimate value of isk - you can buy a harbinger bpo for a certain amount of isk and that won't change unless ccp decides to do it, same for any other sink. and it has to be isk: you can't pay for your corp hangar in thrashers - you have to sell the thrashers to someone who got isk from a faucet in order to pay your hangar tax.

regarding plex, minerals etc - whenever you look at them, never forget that speculators are causing price increases.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2012-03-15 14:09:20 UTC
I Blame Incursions!!!

Even thought more ISK is generate through bounties than missions and incursion combined...

I see other people blame incursions, so I think I should too! It's obviously killing this game!

FC, what do?

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2012-03-15 14:22:44 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
As a result everyone is now scrambling to best defend their own patch (still including incursions) as a result of the "perceived" changes CCP will likley apply to combat interpreted inflationary problems.

So its kind of a kneejerk reaction that a global reduction in bounties and some tweaks to sinks which together may not be so significant a change to make inflation less of a concern on a macro scale by CCP is causing some people headaches.

As a result you could say it might have backfired a little on those who originally started the propoganda as a result?

It's quite simple, really.

You have a bathtub full of water, and it's slowly overflowing because you left the tap on. Now, to improve things, you bring in the garden hose and let it loose in the bathtub as well, and omigosh, now it's really overflowing!

The question is: was the problem that the bathtub was already full, that you left the tap on, or that you made the excellent decision to add the hose as well?

No. It did not backfire — the argument is still that adding the hose at that point was a monumentally retarded idea, especially if the goal of the exercise was to just flush some water through that hose.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#20 - 2012-03-15 14:40:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Grumpy Owly wrote:
As a result everyone is now scrambling to best defend their own patch (still including incursions) as a result of the "perceived" changes CCP will likley apply to combat interpreted inflationary problems.

So its kind of a kneejerk reaction that a global reduction in bounties and some tweaks to sinks which together may not be so significant a change to make inflation less of a concern on a macro scale by CCP is causing some people headaches.

As a result you could say it might have backfired a little on those who originally started the propoganda as a result?

It's quite simple, really.

You have a bathtub full of water, and it's slowly overflowing because you left the tap on. Now, to improve things, you bring in the garden hose and let it loose in the bathtub as well, and omigosh, now it's really overflowing!

The question is: was the problem that the bathtub was already full, that you left the tap on, or that you made the excellent decision to add the hose as well?

No. It did not backfire — the argument is still that adding the hose at that point was a monumentally retarded idea, especially if the goal of the exercise was to just flush some water through that hose.



Nice one! Lol


CCP Soundwave wrote:
Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.


Great idea! Perhaps you should replace dronepoo with bounties, that helps.... right? Roll

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

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