Ships & Modules

Are you trying to make your shield-boosting tank cap-stable? If so, you're doing it wrong. All different types of tanking is different, you should learn about how to do it well, rather than trying to make it the same as another tanking type.

Good luck with that AB Cyclone, dude.

Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Shield tanking can be far more powerful than armor, but is generally not sustainable. You can also do this while filling your lows with damage mods and speed mods. This very much plays to a short but brutally damaging fighting style.

Armor has to trade the ability to fit a decent tank and tackle/propulsion mods with low slot damage mods.

You're asking to remove the differences between the two styles of active tanking, which leads to even less diversity. At some point you have to make some concessions or shell out some serious cash to push the tank against the grain.

Domidis, please show me a Cyclone fit with MWD, XL booster, medium cap booster, 425's and HAMs, without giving up lowslots for fitting modules. Then tell me it beats a triple-rep myrm.

You are arguing rig cost favours shield tankers. Certainly in the T2 rig space this is true, though T2 armour rigs are going down in price. But this is a market dominated by, primarily, titan and supercap rig needs where cost is no concern, and secondarily by pimped BS's such as the dual-rep vindi, bhaalgorns, etc. The price disparity in T1 rig space is less severe; T1 resist rigs are cheaper, yes, but active tank rigs (solidifiers etc) are quite comparable to armour versions.

Then you say that faction XL boosters are cheap? So what? All invul fields - comparable to IN EANMs - are hideously expensive, thanks to Tengus. So yes, you can get a cheap (80-200M) faction booster to add extra HP per cycle for less cap...but your resists, especially the EM hole, are still less than armour.

Then, of course, ignoring your assertions about the Myrm, you can't fit MWD-scram-web to any shield tnking ship without giving up a fair chunk of your tank. Unless you go the pithum A-type 100MN tengu, where you range-sig tank with boosting alts and faction dissy. In which case, yes, you can have your cake and eat it too.

You are taking pieces of my post and making your own assumptions - I've claimed that you can do pretty well with LSB + 425s and HAMs in Cyclone, just like you can do X-L SB + top tier guns in a Mael, unlike all compairable or out-classed BCs and BSs which have to downgrade guns etc.

Cyclone does pretty well in both tank and gank stats, and has decent tracking/mobility to do OK with just a single invul / LSB. Might not be the best, but it's a second best in overall hardly a bad ship to base an argument on the need to boost shield tanking - which is the intent of this topic.



When you are using a dirt cheap, active tanked ship like the cyclone - or the triple/dual rep myrm w/e - you are up to small gang or solo PvP. This, unless you hang on the undock and just provoke people without pulling the trigger youself, usually means losses - a lot of them. Cost plays a huge role, even if with medium rigs that translates to 5-10M. It's still 30-50% of the Hull. And no, I am not using T2 rigs in cyclones - never did thus far at least.

Large rigs are a different story, but still, exactly because of the effectiveness of a single invul (while most armor tankers will have at least 2x EANM or EANM + hardeners that stack ), shield resist rigs are way better than armor resist rigs in most situations. Also the shield rigs fluctuated in the market less than armor rigs do, so it's not that long ago that ALL of them were much cheaper than amor rigs. It's still way cheaper to fit a Mael with T1 rigs, than any active armor tanking BS.



X-L Faction boosters are easier to fit, rep more or rep faster or use less cap and overheat better. It's a big plus.

The faction invul argument comes out of the blue...and it's false - sorry.
- Faction invuls are extremely more expensive than faction EANMs in the LP stores...nothing to compare, and yes, those are "even more expensive because of Tengus", but even without Tengus, still it wouldn't be as cheap as faction EANMs. Please.

- T2 Invul gives you 30% resists out of the box - no skills. It overheats to 36%. Out of the box. - EANM is what? 20% out of the box, faction is 22.5%, and with PERFECT compensation skills (please, don't tell me that many people get that), a navy EANM goes up to 28.125% - with lvl 4s it's around 27%. Two of them with perfect skills will give you at best a 41% resist boost. 2x T2 invuls beat that hands down (without overheating), and with one invul + resist rigs you are pretty close all-around when overheating.




Yeap. No disagreements. Just reminding how much faster any shield tanking ship is with a MWD vs. a similar armor tanked one, and which is in the best position to get into range (or out) the first place, and how the better tracking or missiles of most active shield tanked ships usually does okz without a web, while a Myrm is usually as slow as a Domi and cannot do much without it. In a Cyclone + Myrm fleet, would you ever get the myrm to act as a primary tackler "because it has a web" ?