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Mad inflation

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Author
Ajita al Tchar
Doomheim
#461 - 2012-03-14 21:09:28 UTC
mackluver wrote:

And as I stated, caps/supers in 0.0 PVE should get you an instant pwn fest the way they do in w-space. warp a solo carrier to a site in class five and watch the fireworks. As far as injecting a gazillion isk into the economy... as long as it results in a gazilion isk in pvp ships dying, then all is well. Where as high-sec incursions suffer ship loss only from unwary pilots and unfortunate ganks. That isn't nearly enough to balance against the inflow.


I want to see you warp your supercap anywhere in w-space. OH WAIT.

And lol @ soloing sites in caps in w-space and them being soloPVEpwnmobiles at this. You can do it. But it's definitely not optimal however you spin it, and soloing many sites in carriers is downright suicide (and it's not even the players that will make fireworks happen).

You sound annoying.
Stetson Eagle
Paird Technology
#462 - 2012-03-14 21:18:17 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
I kept a list of goods I normally trade from early Dec 2011. I haven't played since then until just now.

Prices across the board are up around 20%. By this rate, the price of everything will double in a year. Is CCP looking at ways of managing isk flow or should I start converting my ISK into "hard" assets like PLEX or trit?


PLEX is hardly a hard asset in a MMO of eve's age - it goes down when veterans start to look for new ventures since the game is hardly pulling in new pilots.

Tritanium mining in nullsec will be getting a major buff sooner or later, making it a soft asset as well for the long run.

Characters might be a viable investment along some necessary implants and quality modules. Just speculation though.
Sinooko
Tharumec
Gespenster Kompanie
#463 - 2012-03-14 21:29:53 UTC
Why not just raise the prices of NPC ISK sinks in relation to inflation. I mean;

Concord pays ISK to pilots as bounties,

Pilots pay ISK to NPC corporations for various services,

NPC corps pay concord to provide security,

Concord pays ISK to pilots as bounties,

Pilots pay ISK to NPC corporations for various services,

NPC corps pay concord to provide security,

Concord pays ISK to pilots as bounties,

Pilots pay ISK to NPC corporations for various services,

NPC corps pay concord to provide security,

Concord pays ISK to pilots as bounties,

Pilots pay ISK to NPC corporations for various services,

NPC corps pay concord to provide security,

In case yer not catching on this repeats.

It would require a hefty algorithm to make it all work out right and dear gawd the price of things like clones and NPC station ship repairs would be nuts, not to mention invention and manufacturing, offices... etc... but if the algorithm is set to ease prices along it could work maybe...
Adunh Slavy
#464 - 2012-03-14 21:29:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Skex wrote:

... mudflation has more to do with older items losing value while others end up with ex-ordinate prices due to factors beyond simple currency accumulation.


Wikipedia wrote:

... Mudflation occurs when future additions to (or even just continued operation of) a game causes previously acquired resources to decline in value


Look close enough to one another to me.

Eve is a different case and Skex has described some of the aspects that expose the difference between mudflation and inflation. There are some aspects of the Eve economy that are mudflation like, but the convertibility (reprocessing) of some of the obsolete items mitigates the item inflation that is also part of mudflation. Nerfing drone poo will help reduce what aspects of mudflation do exist in the Eve economy, stopping loot drops and changing over to 1 run BPCs, or "broken" metaX items that require "repair" using minerals, will go even further to remove resource oversupply.

Prices rising for minerals is caused by, upcoming removal of mineral supply in an environment of an ever increasing monetary base that is also experiencing increased velocity.

Edit this term " item inflation " used above means, an increase count of those items in the game. Some, (who rely on mass media and sources that do not like to admit their role in inflation (central banks)) may be confused thinking I mean item price.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

mackluver
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#465 - 2012-03-14 22:12:46 UTC
Ajita al Tchar wrote:
mackluver wrote:

And as I stated, caps/supers in 0.0 PVE should get you an instant pwn fest the way they do in w-space. warp a solo carrier to a site in class five and watch the fireworks. As far as injecting a gazillion isk into the economy... as long as it results in a gazilion isk in pvp ships dying, then all is well. Where as high-sec incursions suffer ship loss only from unwary pilots and unfortunate ganks. That isn't nearly enough to balance against the inflow.


I want to see you warp your supercap anywhere in w-space. OH WAIT.

And lol @ soloing sites in caps in w-space and them being soloPVEpwnmobiles at this. You can do it. But it's definitely not optimal however you spin it, and soloing many sites in carriers is downright suicide (and it's not even the players that will make fireworks happen).

You sound annoying.


And you seem to have problems with reading comprehension. I was saying that the sleepers **** caps. Maybe you were not around for the beggining of w-space, when a bunch of silly folks thought they could solo wormholes the way they did 0.0 PVE. There were streams of lossmails where sleepers shattered carriers/dreads. And as far as supers, I was implying that supers AND other caps should get the same result in 0.0 trying to solo PVE as they do in w-space. I'll give you a clear example so it doesn't go over your head again...

1. Warp Supercarrier to Sanctum. 2. 150-200 neuting BS's spawn. 3. Rats **** supercap (and before you get into semantics, lets say we give some of those Super rats hictor points). 4. Leet bittervet Emo logs.

Still annoying? I hope so, troll.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#466 - 2012-03-15 00:58:16 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Tippia wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.
You're going to have to elaborate on that one a bit.

Kile Kitmoore wrote:
Finally, NOW can we please stop the nerf Incursion threads!
Nope.
Quote:
As for the inflation, you wanted a mining buff here it is! Trit selling at 5 ISK a pop! Nice!
Inflation is not a mining buff since it doesn't mean mining is more worth-while.


Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.



Jesus...

Almost no-one belt-rats in nullsec anymore.

Incursions cannot be botted 23.5/7, yet account for ca.25% of all bounty payouts. PLEX were not shooitng towards ISK 500mn, along with damned near everything else rising by ca. 50% before Incursions.

This is not hard, OK?

Incursion farming with no commensurate ISK-sink/little risk is a huge problem, and nothing you do to delude yourself otherwise will change this.

Oh, btw, thanks for the stealth-nerf to co-operative gameplay re- sec-status ratting.

That will not be forgotten, just so we're clear.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#467 - 2012-03-15 00:59:42 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
highonpop wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.



or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow...

Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout...


Or tell the Sansha to go home...


Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.


Yes, they are.

And you bloody well know it, so kindly stop insulting our intelligence.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Skex Relbore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#468 - 2012-03-15 01:24:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Skex Relbore
Liang Nuren wrote:


No, what's happening here is that you're sticking your head in the sand. What we have IS an example of mudflation - contrary to what you originally claimed. Furthermore, I am not ignoring the effects of no-drop indestructible assets (aka "soul bound" items) - I'm simply pointing out that the Eve economy is having a problem right now as the faucets are running significantly faster than the drains

This is a problem

It is mudflation

It is the definition of mudflation

Stop trolling

-Liang


I'm not trolling, you are being obtuse.

Mudflation is not simply monetary Also as I and others have pointed out EVE does not have an inflation problem either

If it did you would be seeing a constant increase in prices overtime rather than the spike that coincided with two major null sec wars one of which has a huge effect on mineral prices.

I'd say you have a 101 level understanding of currency but a even a basic macro course would give you a bit of a clue.

Evidence of inflation. if there was inflation we'd have it. Yet for all the crying and bellyaching you and the rest of the chicken little's have been doing over the last 2 and half years I've not seen one iota of evidence

All we get is your half-baked theory. well here's a little lesson for you. When theory conflicts with evidence, you toss the theory

There are certain things we'd expect to happen if inflation was a problem primarily a steady increase of prices on all goods. The fact that we haven't had that should be sufficient to discard this bullshit.
Mimiru Minahiro
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#469 - 2012-03-15 01:35:16 UTC
I don't know much about mudflation, but it sure does seem like a lot of mad inflation recently.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#470 - 2012-03-15 02:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Skex Relbore wrote:
If it did you would be seeing a constant increase in prices overtime rather than the spike that coincided with two major null sec wars one of which has a huge effect on mineral prices.


So the rise in price of PLEX from 300M ISK to 480M ISK is merely a spike in mineral prices due to null sec wars?
Niomi Kunst
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#471 - 2012-03-15 02:10:31 UTC
I'd like to see how much of an ISK sink NPC commodities would be today if PI did not exist.
Adunh Slavy
#472 - 2012-03-15 02:28:35 UTC
Skex Relbore wrote:

Mudflation is not simply monetary Also as I and others have pointed out EVE does not have an inflation problem either

If it did you would be seeing a constant increase in prices overtime rather than the spike that coincided with two major null sec wars one of which has a huge effect on mineral prices.

I'd say you have a 101 level understanding of currency but a even a basic macro course would give you a bit of a clue.

Evidence of inflation. if there was inflation we'd have it. Yet for all the crying and bellyaching you and the rest of the chicken little's have been doing over the last 2 and half years I've not seen one iota of evidence

All we get is your half-baked theory. well here's a little lesson for you. When theory conflicts with evidence, you toss the theory

There are certain things we'd expect to happen if inflation was a problem primarily a steady increase of prices on all goods. The fact that we haven't had that should be sufficient to discard this bullshit.


There is inflation of the monetary base, and then there are symptoms of that inflation. What matters is, does productive output keep up with the increase in the base. When it comes to Eve, each sector of the economy has to be examined differently. There are some sectors that are more sensitive to ISK inflation than others, and some less because of mechanics in the game, some things in the game are completely immune to inflationary pressures.

To me what is important are those game mechanics that hinder or over sensitize the different sectors. Those things which are immune are a a little troubling, but good for newbies so they don't bug me much. I for one am not concerned about prices going up because of inflation, it's what is supposed to happen. The sooner we get to the point where doing something other than shooting rats becomes as valuable as shooting rats, the better off Eve will be.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Roh Voleto
Doomheim
#473 - 2012-03-15 02:41:02 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

Decrease null sec bounties by 10%, low sec by 20% and high sec by 50%.

IB4 high sec tears.


Remove null sec bounties, increase low sec bounties by 50% and remove high sec bounties and LP Store tag requirements.

Inb4 sweet, sweet kill mails.


FTFY
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#474 - 2012-03-15 03:11:48 UTC
Roh Voleto wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

Decrease null sec bounties by 10%, low sec by 20% and high sec by 50%.

IB4 high sec tears.


Remove null sec bounties, increase low sec bounties by 50% and remove high sec bounties and LP Store tag requirements.

Inb4 sweet, sweet kill mails.


FTFY


This--although hisec bounties should not be totally vapourised, but as well, there needs to be more content in losec besides just missions.

Also, NPC loot-drops: No tech I/meta zero loots. At all. Meta 1+, tags, and/or salvage only.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#475 - 2012-03-15 03:12:47 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Skex Relbore wrote:
If it did you would be seeing a constant increase in prices overtime rather than the spike that coincided with two major null sec wars one of which has a huge effect on mineral prices.


So the rise in price of PLEX from 300M ISK to 480M ISK is merely a spike in mineral prices due to null sec wars?


Actually, it's just a display-bug.

[/cynicism]

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Englebert
Hijinxed
#476 - 2012-03-15 04:13:28 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.


What about fuel for ships?
Dro Nee
#477 - 2012-03-15 04:14:00 UTC
Can you still pay for fanfest with plex? That used to drive plex prices up every year by a good margin. Also, aren't prices always higher on other goods this time of year? As far back as I can remember prices went up in December and remained higher until AT/summer.
Roh Voleto
Doomheim
#478 - 2012-03-15 05:36:01 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:


This--although hisec bounties should not be totally vapourised,...


I don't think anybody older than a week would care about highsec bounties, if the LP stores would not require tags and implants/hardwirings were removed from the mission reward and loot lists.

I do agree that removing mission loot and drone-poo would do wonders to industry and the economy, though.
Billy Kidd
Breaking Plaid
#479 - 2012-03-15 10:28:59 UTC
Okay, I still don't get why ISK inflation is so bad. Suppose the price of tritanium goes up to 55 isk/unit. That means a Rokh with t2 mining lasers could pull in about 100m/ hour mining veldspar, which would make mining competitive with incursions. Yes, everything would be extremely expensive, but mining would become a much more lucrative industry than before. The inflation would eventually stop as people stopped making bounties and instead switched over to mining.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
Space Potatoes Alliance
#480 - 2012-03-15 11:14:45 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
highonpop wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.



or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow...

Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout...


Or tell the Sansha to go home...


Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.


Since I did this in real life, nobody saw me clap my hands once in the hair just before yelling "**** yeah!" in my squeaky voice. But basically, **** yeah CCP Soundwave.