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Good Caldari ship for level 4's?
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Iowynn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-03-13 16:34:20 UTC
Hello!

I played like two months ago in 2010, stopped, and decided to give the game another try a week ago. I've been chomping through level 3's with my Drake, but feel like it's time to take the step into level 4's. I've been training towards a Raven, which I now can fly, but I still lack a couple of important recommended ones

Should I jump straight into them with my Drake, or wait for my Raven? I've heard it's possible to do them with a Drake, if you can stand the extremely low dps output

Are Raven's fully capable of handling level 4's, or should I aim to train towards a different ship? And while I'm on the subject, what would the "natural" next step be after the Raven? I prefer sticking with Caldari ships.
Vito Antonio
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-03-13 16:45:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Vito Antonio
yes I agree with Zhilia Mann
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2012-03-13 17:02:16 UTC
Honestly, a low skilled Raven isn't going to outdamage a moderately-skilled Drake. Neither is exactly a damage powerhouse.

You really have a few options for progressing. Stick with heavy missiles, you can move towards a Nighthawk or -- likely a better idea -- a Tengu. Shifting to cruise missiles, you can slog up the Raven/CNR route and perhaps move eventually to a Golem. The battleship path really is pretty meh right now though. Finally, you could skill up drones and work towards the Guristas line of ships, which manage to sport solid tanks with enough gank to not laugh too hard.

Heading straight for a Tengu does seem to be the best payoff for pure Caldari these days though. For better or for worse.
Sophisto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-03-13 18:44:47 UTC
if you have excellent shield skills a Raven can take on a good bit of L4 missions while some will send you running, but the CNR is the fail safe route for sure with its extra shield capacity, armor, and extra launcher slot.. I started with a Raven but when I went to the CNR I couldnt believe the difference.
Darrow Hill
Vodka and Vice
#5 - 2012-03-13 18:50:29 UTC
Given the current state of the game I would recommend:

Kestrel -> Caracal -> Drake -> Tengu -> Crosstrain to another race.


My time training Cruise Missiles is something I would love to get back.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#6 - 2012-03-13 19:06:29 UTC
Tengu. Still.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Burtzum
Det Som Engang Var
#7 - 2012-03-13 19:19:00 UTC
Yep. Forget Caldari battleships. Train Caldari Cruiser 5. That will set you up for Tengu (for lvl 4s) and Basilisk (for incursions).
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#8 - 2012-03-13 19:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nuela
I have explored all 3 routes. CNR, Golem and Tengu. I have equivalent and high skills in flying each.

Forget the Golem, just not worth it imo.

The CNR is great and has the highest DPS imo. However, it uses Cruise missles...which take up much training time and are not much use outside of solo PvE. For solo PVE it is GREAT...drone bay holds 20 light drones - 5 of each damage type and you can equally DPS apply all 4 damage types. Its only downside (besides training for Cruise missles) is that it is slow...but for most missions it is just fine.

A properly fitted Tengu doesn't have the DPS compared to a CNR (and those that say it does need to load something other than Kinetic missles and try to say it again) but it CAN put out some DPS especially against kinetic vulnerable rats. It is much faster because you usually put on an afterburner. It also uses heavy missles which skilling up in has use outside solo PvE. You also need to be careful about warp scrammer rat frigs because you do not have light drones to engae them...however, I haven't had problems with this....but someone could. On the upside, you don't have to worry about drones...bring em in....send em out....ooo taking damage bring em in....OOPS forgot my drones! etc. :D

So...what should you train? I think Tengu UNLESS you want you toon to be a pure solo PvE type then the waste/time spent skilling up Cruise Missles may be worth it. Basically, if you get it 'wrong' with a Tengu (decide you should have went CNR) it is not a big mistake...and the Tengu has many, many, many more uses than the one-trick CNR.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2012-03-13 19:40:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I only ever had problems with one level 4 mission in my Drake, and that was easily solved with some faction missiles for the last boss, Draben Kuvakei, of Vengeance (Sansha are weak to EM, not kinetic). I think I had BC 2 and level 2 cruise missile skills.

Fit the right hardeners for the mission, and you can pretty much fall asleep without worries (been there, done that).

Now my fit wasn't optimal, but here it is as an example of "good enough".

I highly recommend a Raven, Raven Navy Issue, Golem, or Tengu for level 4. All of them are faster.

I currently use a Raven Navy Issue or a Tengu depending on the mission and my mood. The Golem is great for Worlds Collide and Damsel in Distress. My current skills.

[Drake, Basic Level 4]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II

Salvager I
Small Tractor Beam I
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile
XR-3200 Heavy Missile Bay, Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


Hobgoblin II x5
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-03-13 19:48:34 UTC
Yeah, I know why you had problems... Put a bloody 7th launcher on that thing.
And don't omnitank, take the right hardeners with you.

If you can omnitank something it is a clear sign that you have to much tank modules... Fit rat specific hardeners, reduce the tank and add mobility/gank.
Iowynn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-13 20:52:40 UTC
Thanks folks, I really do appreciate your input so far!

I think I'm gonna try 4's with my current Drake and see how it goes, and just wait half a month for all of my Raven related skils to finish (I can already fly it, training the recommended ones next).

This is the fit I've been using for my Drake. Should I change anything in particular to ease up 4's?



[Drake, PvE Drake]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Shield Power Relay II

Invulnerability Field I
Explosion Dampening Field I
Ballistic Deflection Field I
Large Shield Extender I
Large Shield Extender I
10MN Afterburner II

'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Hobgoblin II x5


Swapping the resistance modules and missiles depending on the rats I'll be facing. Skills trained: http://eveboard.com/pilot/Iowynn


To answer some questions... I do plan on getting more into PvP. Taking on the life of lowsec/nullsec alone feels rather... unwelcome though. :(
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2012-03-13 21:42:36 UTC
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Yeah, I know why you had problems... Put a bloody 7th launcher on that thing.
And don't omnitank, take the right hardeners with you.

If you can omnitank something it is a clear sign that you have to much tank modules... Fit rat specific hardeners, reduce the tank and add mobility/gank.

Please do read my post again. This time noting the part about using mission specific hardeners, and also where I stated it wasn't an optimal fit but good enough.

All posted fittings use omni as an example ONLY, as it is expected they will be replaced with the appropriate hardeners.

Also, I challenge you to fit 7 launchers on that without removing a LSE.
Burtzum
Det Som Engang Var
#13 - 2012-03-13 21:49:46 UTC
The most obvious changes would be to train for T2 shield modules and T2 missile launchers so you have a better tank and wont lose 90mil worth of launchers if your 40mil hull pops.
Aggressive Nutmeg
#14 - 2012-03-14 04:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aggressive Nutmeg
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Also, I challenge you to fit 7 launchers on that without removing a LSE.

7 x Launchers and 3 x LSE's can be done. Here's my standard PVE Drake fit for every L4 mission:

HIGH 1 - Cald. Navy Heavy Missile Launcher
HIGH 2 - Cald. Navy Heavy Missile Launcher
HIGH 3 - Cald. Navy Heavy Missile Launcher
HIGH 4 - Cald. Navy Heavy Missile Launcher
HIGH 5 - Cald. Navy Heavy Missile Launcher
HIGH 6 - Cald. Navy Heavy Missile Launcher
HIGH 7 - Cald. Navy Heavy Missile Launcher
HIGH 8 - Salvager II

MED 1 - Invulnerability Field II
MED 2 - Invulnerability Field II
MED 3 - Cald. Navy Large Shield Extender
MED 4 - Cald. Navy Large Shield Extender
MED 5 - Cald. Navy Large Shield Extender
MED 6 - Fed. Navy 10MN Afterburner

LOW 1 - Cald. Navy Ballistic Control System
LOW 2 - Cald. Navy Ballistic Control System
LOW 3 - Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
LOW 4 - Damage Control Unit II

RIG 1 - Medium Bay Loading Accelarator II
RIG 2 - Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
RIG 3 - Medium Core Defence Field Purger I

DRONES - Hobgoblin II x5


I prefer the third Large Shield Extender and never bother with rat-specific resists. I like a no fuss fit. Just load up some T1 ammo and undock.

This fit works because the CN Large Shield Extenders use less CPU than LSE II's and the CN Heavy Missile Launchers use less powergrid than HML II's.

I don't use T2 ammo for mission running. It's expensive and you lose 10km's of range. I think it might be crap against frigates as well. Just a feeling. Haven't really tested that.

So I might as well use the CN Launchers and get that extra CPU.

Note the Medium Bay Loading Accelarator II rig for extra gank. Offsets a bit of the DPS I lose by not using HML II's.

The only change I make to this fit is to pack some FOF's for those 2 or 3 perma-jamming/damping missions.

A possible change to the above fit might be to add a third Cald. Navy Ballistic Control System and drop the DCU II.

Ok, this is expensive but at least I didn't drop in a couple of Caldari Navy Invulnerability Fields.

And don't forget to stick some missile implants in your head.

Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2012-03-14 04:23:58 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Also, I challenge you to fit 7 launchers on that without removing a LSE.


Umm. A 7th XR fits on there if you drop either the salvager of the tractor. EGU 5 is required though. If you drop to Beta SPRs it's fine.

Also, as long as we're posting silly Drakes, have a Silly Drake:


[Drake, silly drake]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Domination 10MN Afterburner
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Bay Loading Accelerator II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

For a more realistic Drake fit, try this:


[Drake, realistic L4]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-03-14 09:12:45 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Also, I challenge you to fit 7 launchers on that without removing a LSE.

[Drake, realistic L4]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I


this is about as good as it gets. if you have trouble to fit it, try downgrading the shield extenders to meta4 or upgrading the BCUs to caldari navy (which you should do anyway to help dps). if you don't have the skills for t2 heavy missile launchers, you can get a full set of navy launchers for about 350mil.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Keilateau Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#17 - 2012-03-14 09:54:22 UTC
Why-oh-why do people keep omitting the Navy Scorpion?
Bricksauce
The Soul Society
Fraternity.
#18 - 2012-03-14 10:13:31 UTC
Train up to a Drake, and use that until you have the proper skills and a good amount of isk to purchase a proper Tengu.

!
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-03-14 12:34:17 UTC
Keilateau Shakor wrote:
Why-oh-why do people keep omitting the Navy Scorpion?


Because people see the 7th launcher on the CNR and forget about everything else.

I like the Navy Scorpion - You trade a 7th launcher for better tank and 2 Target Painter - For me it's worth it, though I probably wouldn't do it if the hulls were reversed, the Raven hull looks dreadful.

Quote:

Also, I challenge you to fit 7 launchers on that without removing a LSE.


What challenge? Even if it wasn't possible, you fit as much bonussed weapons as possible on your ship, tank is always secondary - 17% damage is never worth the 3rd LSE
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-03-14 14:06:41 UTC
If you're doing lvl 3 missions and you don't spend 24/7 blitzing them, the Tengu is quite far from you, considered you can't pay for it and certainly can't afford to use it.

Drake runs all lvl 4 missions with the exception of enemies about 5, Rave will do about the same.

Personaly I'm a fan of the Navy Scorpion kick-ass tank more mid slots than A Navy Raven, because of that you can make use of offencive rigs, which in the end gives about the same DPS as a Caldari Navy Raven for half the price, since you have less need for expensive Dead space shield boosters and the like.
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