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Belt Ratting stealth nerf? chaining stealth nerf? mistake by ccp?

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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
#81 - 2012-03-14 13:56:54 UTC
Most ****** change in months and it wasnt even in the patch notes.

CCP, just realize not everybody wants to do 0.0 PvP or your inbalanced uber-****** high sec incursions, which you wont even admit are completely and utterly imbalanced and ****** up the complete economy of Eve during the past few months.

God damnit!

Back to the good old days, where listening to the players was not necessary, because you knew better anyway?

Yay 10 years! :D
Mr John22ta
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-03-14 14:01:12 UTC
Sade Onyx wrote:
Raptor217 wrote:
I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.


Why cant you understand? CCP have said many times, Incursions arnt the problem. Its the 0.0 Belt ratters and mission runners.

Wake up dude, The whole 'incursions cause inflation' was a lie. The lie has now backfired and this is one of many changes to come to nerf 0.0 bears.



You really have no idea what you are talking about. While the majority of ISK may come from rat bounties, it's not coming from people in null sec. 90% of people in null don't belt rat, and although some do run sites, most make their money with alts in high sec. I think you'll find that more rats are killed in High Sec per day than in null, and it's a no brainier that most mission rewards are collected in High Sec.

I know you high sec dwellers love to push the idea of the "null bear", and while they do exist, I can assure you they are a minority. I don't think incursion's are the only problem, I think ALL high sec rewards are far too high. The fact that many of the people I fly with and fight against have alts in empire to make money with tells me that.

0.0 should **** ISK compared to 0.5+ space, not the other way round. Perhaps you should spend some time understanding the game and player behavior before you start sperging "null bear" garbage.

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-03-14 14:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Despite what people say, Incursions pose a far greater risk than belt ratting. The only reason Incursions are so "safe" is because people do them in large groups and have a specific setup for each ship that is optimal for the situation. What CCP needs to do is make Incursions MUCH harder and add a vast element of uncertainty to not only the number of ships in each site but their difficulty and the end payout. Having a set amount of ships spawn in each site means that everybody knows exactly what is coming and how to deal with it. This should also be applied to ALL sites. DED and WH sites as well.

I personally hate the fact that I can go to a website and in seconds know exactly what spawns and what not to kill in any kind of site.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#84 - 2012-03-14 15:15:45 UTC
Reading this, the number of BS/BC etc doesn't change in a mission, just the quality of them?

So instead of facing off against 10 Gist Angel Battleships you might get a few Cherubims.


What this does nerf is certain missions where quality Battleships always spawned, and buffs the hell out of factions that rarely use their best stuff (looking at you Serps)

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-03-14 15:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Whoa whoa can't have you chaining belt rats in 0.0, that could make upwards of 40m an hr

Yeah go ahead and chain Vanguards in highsec for 120m an hr risk free, no problem

Why is nullsec so empty, your thoughts playerbase?

:ccp:
Caliban Zateki
Zateki Alliance
#86 - 2012-03-14 18:52:59 UTC
Greg Valanti wrote:


The figures speak for themselves - 32B isk from ratting/bounties vs. 8B from incursions. The difference is you don't have bots running incursions 23.5/7. The change is a disincentive for player ratters, I agree. But it should help stop the rapid inflation that would make it impossible for average players to keep pace.


Bounties are also payed out in missions. Its not like all 32 bill is from belt ratting. Quote numbers all you want but cause and effect also does not lie. 500 mill plex market came about after incursions not before.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#87 - 2012-03-14 18:57:27 UTC
Caliban Zateki wrote:
Greg Valanti wrote:


The figures speak for themselves - 32B isk from ratting/bounties vs. 8B from incursions. The difference is you don't have bots running incursions 23.5/7. The change is a disincentive for player ratters, I agree. But it should help stop the rapid inflation that would make it impossible for average players to keep pace.


Bounties are also payed out in missions. Its not like all 32 bill is from belt ratting. Quote numbers all you want but cause and effect also does not lie. 500 mill plex market came about after incursions not before.


This, TBQFH.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2012-03-14 19:08:03 UTC
Sade Onyx wrote:
Raptor217 wrote:
I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.


Why cant you understand? CCP have said many times, Incursions arnt the problem. Its the 0.0 Belt ratters and mission runners.

Wake up dude, The whole 'incursions cause inflation' was a lie. The lie has now backfired and this is one of many changes to come to nerf 0.0 bears.



I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but belt ratters are *NOT* the problem - because hardly anybody belt rats anymore. I would bet that virtually all bounties come from missions and anomalies these days.

And CCP has not said that "Incursions aren't the problem". They have, in fact, voiced concern over the difficulty level of Incursion sites and also voiced concerns about the "cookie cutter" nature of Incursion fleets.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2012-03-14 19:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Taedrin wrote:
Sade Onyx wrote:
Raptor217 wrote:
I don't understand why nullsec is being nerfed, while highsec still has incursions.


Why cant you understand? CCP have said many times, Incursions arnt the problem. Its the 0.0 Belt ratters and mission runners.

Wake up dude, The whole 'incursions cause inflation' was a lie. The lie has now backfired and this is one of many changes to come to nerf 0.0 bears.



I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but belt ratters are *NOT* the problem - because hardly anybody belt rats anymore. I would bet that virtually all bounties come from missions and anomalies these days.

And CCP has not said that "Incursions aren't the problem". They have, in fact, voiced concern over the difficulty level of Incursion sites and also voiced concerns about the "cookie cutter" nature of Incursion fleets.

Actually Soundwave did say that:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=925398#post925398
But later in the thread stated there were changes to incursions more or less ready to deploy but were pending release.

Same thread also states an intent to possibly reduce bounties to address inflation issues
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2012-03-14 19:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: highonpop
Azure Moonlight wrote:
Most ****** change in months and it wasnt even in the patch notes.

CCP, just realize not everybody wants to do 0.0 PvP or your inbalanced uber-****** high sec incursions, which you wont even admit are completely and utterly imbalanced and ****** up the complete economy of Eve during the past few months.

God damnit!

Back to the good old days, where listening to the players was not necessary, because you knew better anyway?




More ISK is distributed through RAT BOUNTIES than Incursions and Level 4 missions COMBINED

FC, what do?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-03-14 19:32:48 UTC
highonpop wrote:
Azure Moonlight wrote:
Most ****** change in months and it wasnt even in the patch notes.

CCP, just realize not everybody wants to do 0.0 PvP or your inbalanced uber-****** high sec incursions, which you wont even admit are completely and utterly imbalanced and ****** up the complete economy of Eve during the past few months.

God damnit!

Back to the good old days, where listening to the players was not necessary, because you knew better anyway?




More ISK is distributed through RAT BOUNTIES than Incursions and Level 4 missions COMBINED

It bears repeating that the mission payout number is just mission rewards from the agent alone and doesn't include bounties for pirate missions. The bounty payout number on the other hand is all the bounties paid from missions, ratting, plexing, anoms and anything else I'm forgetting. That number really should be expected to be the greatest isk source by far.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#92 - 2012-03-14 19:37:31 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
highonpop wrote:
Azure Moonlight wrote:
Most ****** change in months and it wasnt even in the patch notes.

CCP, just realize not everybody wants to do 0.0 PvP or your inbalanced uber-****** high sec incursions, which you wont even admit are completely and utterly imbalanced and ****** up the complete economy of Eve during the past few months.

God damnit!

Back to the good old days, where listening to the players was not necessary, because you knew better anyway?




More ISK is distributed through RAT BOUNTIES than Incursions and Level 4 missions COMBINED

It bears repeating that the mission payout number is just mission rewards from the agent alone and doesn't include bounties for pirate missions. The bounty payout number on the other hand is all the bounties paid from missions, ratting, plexing, anoms and anything else I'm forgetting. That number really should be expected to be the greatest isk source by far.


It's quite telling that a finite number of incursions create 1/4 the ISK that an infinite number of available bounties create.

It's also quite telling that Incursions were Soundwave's baby and now that they appear borked, he's pulling a Fearless and taking the popular side despite the apparent tsunami of ISK.

Just sayin'.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-03-14 19:44:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Darth Gustav wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
highonpop wrote:
Azure Moonlight wrote:
Most ****** change in months and it wasnt even in the patch notes.

CCP, just realize not everybody wants to do 0.0 PvP or your inbalanced uber-****** high sec incursions, which you wont even admit are completely and utterly imbalanced and ****** up the complete economy of Eve during the past few months.

God damnit!

Back to the good old days, where listening to the players was not necessary, because you knew better anyway?




More ISK is distributed through RAT BOUNTIES than Incursions and Level 4 missions COMBINED

It bears repeating that the mission payout number is just mission rewards from the agent alone and doesn't include bounties for pirate missions. The bounty payout number on the other hand is all the bounties paid from missions, ratting, plexing, anoms and anything else I'm forgetting. That number really should be expected to be the greatest isk source by far.


It's quite telling that a finite number of incursions create 1/4 the ISK that an infinite number of available bounties create.

It's also quite telling that Incursions were Soundwave's baby and now that they appear borked, he's pulling a Fearless and taking the popular side despite the apparent tsunami of ISK.

Just sayin'.

Reserving judgment until the specifics of the mentioned incoming changes are blogged/released.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#94 - 2012-03-14 19:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Avid Bumhumper wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
Snap, isk faucet just got nerfed.



Perhaps they simply want to push everyone into Incursions, then they will "Rebalance that" Cool







Not to defend the Incursion ISK faucet


but


Meanwhile, the real imbalance in incursions is not necessarily the total ISK payout, but the factors around certain sites, the ease of which they can be used, and the leaving the Sansha mothership lingering while site blitzing.

Incursions will be fixed, and the 0.0 ISK pump is being fixed. I am starting to like this game more.

Now if they would just let us have puppy launchers.


Edit: almost forgot the Whaaaaaaambulance! Woo woo woo woo woo!

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
#95 - 2012-03-14 22:06:44 UTC
All you idiots brining up LPs you get from Incursions need to shut up. That's an ISK SINK not a faucet. You have to spend ISK to get an item out of the LP store. You then sell that item on the market for ISK that already exists in the game.

Also, a few years ago GTCs were about 800m ISK so it is just a cycle and nothing is unprecedented here.

http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
Aquila Draco
#96 - 2012-03-14 23:32:21 UTC
In the month of Feb:

~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts
~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses
~32T in NPC bounty


Now you do your math.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2012-03-14 23:42:26 UTC
Aquila Draco wrote:
In the month of Feb:

~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts
~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses
~32T in NPC bounty


Now you do your math.

Wormhole blue books Source $10,430,000,000,000
Incursions Rewards Source $8,566,015,400,900
Mission Rewards Source $2,470,815,985,076
Misson Bonuses Source $2,346,410,541,970
Insurance Payouts Source $3,366,455,121,035
NPC Bounties Source $32,083,329,999,805
For a more complete picture. Numbers are part of a compilation from CCP Diagoras' twitters compiled by Two step.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-03-15 00:56:24 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Aquila Draco wrote:
In the month of Feb:

~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts
~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses
~32T in NPC bounty


Now you do your math.

Wormhole blue books Source $10,430,000,000,000
Incursions Rewards Source $8,566,015,400,900
Mission Rewards Source $2,470,815,985,076
Misson Bonuses Source $2,346,410,541,970
Insurance Payouts Source $3,366,455,121,035
NPC Bounties Source $32,083,329,999,805
For a more complete picture. Numbers are part of a compilation from CCP Diagoras' twitters compiled by Two step.

The thing is that the NPC Bounties are all lumped together. You have all NPC bounties that were payed out to people; Running L4s in highsec, belt ratters, anom runners, DED complexe runners, any one killing anything that had a NPC bounty. There is no diferentiation as to where it all comes from, it was all lumped into one big pile and counted. Untill we get some hard numbers, broken down by at least region of NPC bounty payouts, I sugest you shut your pie hole about "nullbears" causing inflation.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2012-03-15 01:01:33 UTC
was i really about to engage in a dialog with people who think belt rats are the only source of npc bounties in EVE online?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#100 - 2012-03-15 01:10:05 UTC
Taedrin wrote:

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but belt ratters are *NOT* the problem - because hardly anybody belt rats anymore.


The amount of whine in this thread would seem to indicate you are wrong.

Mr Epeen Cool