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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Attributes and T3 ships

Author
Hun Hau Wehwurt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-14 10:51:55 UTC
I am bloody new to eve and still very confused. I read many guides and the forums but I am now at a point where I need some expertise knowldge.

My 1st issue is related to the attributes. I am now at a point where it starts taking longer to get to the next skillevel so I bought some basic implants but I wonder if I should change my attributes.
As a goal for the near future I want to do mission running and for the more distant future I want to do PvP so I go for skills that are combat related. Is it worth to change my attributes, and if it is, how? I mean is it worth to lower my charisma and to alter my willpower.

My 2nd issue goes with ships. In many guides and in the forums is written, that I should go for cruisers as soon as possible and I have realised that I have serious trouble with T2 missions in my destroyer while T1 are too boring.
I do play Minmatar so I looked for the different cruisers and I do want to play the Stabber or a variation of it. The Stabber will work for the first missions I guess but then there are the T2 and T3 ships also. The Vagabound is quiet expensive. I am able to afford it and I would be able to replace it if I lose it but I guess it will hurt to much.
But then there is the T3 Stabber FI which is better in every aspect, but if I am not wrong, if I lose this ship and dont manage to get out of it or to destroy it by myself before it blowes up, I will lose a skill.
My question is now is the price of a better cheaper ship worth the risk? I dont want to play PvP or go to lowsec with this ship but I do want to do T2 and if its possible T3 missions in it.


At last I do want o apologise for my bad english as this isnt my main language.

Thank you for your advise.

Kaneda Kurosawa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-03-14 11:23:03 UTC
If you want to know about remaps (adjusting your attributes) then you want to get Eve Mon (or eve HQ). These are external apps that are allowed by CCP (i.e. using them doesn't break the EULA). These will tell you what to change your attributes to based on the skill queue you've set up. In other words you need to be thinking about what you want to train over the next year as you only get 1 remap per year. This can seem quite a daunting task but as you gain in SP some of your training will start to take up to a month for 1 skill level (and in other cases an awful lot longer).

In theory there is nothing wrong with using T2 or T3 ships on missions but be aware that T1 ships will perform perfectly well on these missions. In general you want Frigates for lvl 1, Cruisers for lvl 2, Battlecruisers for lvl 3 and Battleships for lvl 4. If your looking for fits then using google can be your best bet, battle clinic isn't brilliant but will give you some basics.

Ding a ding dang my dang along ling long

Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-03-14 11:40:51 UTC
Skip remaps for now. I never used them and IMO it's not really worth the trouble/thoughts, unless you're really sure on what you plan to train over the next year. But even then, you're just skipping a few days max.

As for ship hulls: You should try to get to battlecruisers as fast as possible (don't stop at cruisers for now). They'll allow you to fly any L2 or L3 mission without issues and possibly even some L4 missions later on. Then you're able to improve your fitting skills as well as starting to look for T2 alternatives or maybe a T3. The strategic cruisers are more versatile than T2's but they're not as specialized and far more expensive (it's essentially money vs. skill time; but in the end you'll want the other skills anyway).

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-03-14 11:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
First answer regarding attribute remaps:

Yes, getting skills at higher levels or more advanced skill trained takes longer, this is general for everybody in EVE. If it wasn't like this it would mean that EVE just becomes another power leveling MMO like all those others on the market.

Don't remap on a short skill plan, this is a waste of remaps. Like said use any out of EVE program like EVEMON or EVEHQ to make a long term skill plan and look how to effectively remap your attributes to cut down time on that plan. IMO remaps are worthless unless on a really long skillplan. I had a skill plan of over a year and a remap just took 3 days of that plan if I did it, which isn't worth it IMO.

On to the issues with missions and ships:

First of all, there are no T2 missions but they are called level 2 mission. Just to mention this as it makes your post easier to understand.

Level 2 missions should be doable with your destroyer if your skills are just a bit more up to par with the ship and missions, also try to fine tune your ship fit. It could be that the mission seems impossible due to your fit not being "perfect" for it.

Also, cruisers are nice to get into. But like anything in EVE, don't rush too it. A cruiser is worthless if you don't have the skill to use it properly (commonly known as, being able to sit in a ship doesn't mean you can use it properly).
Also there are no T3 stabbers. Stabber is one of the T1 cruisers for Minmatar (same for the Bellicose, Rupture and Scythe, all of them are also T1 cruisers). There are also T2 versions of the Minmatar cruisers, they are specialized ships (as with all T2 ships though) that are build for a more single duty in EVE (for instance the Heavy Interdictor cruiser, that is a very specialized ship that is mainly usefull in 0.0 space where you can deploy bubbles). And last but not least there are the T3 Cruisers (aka strategic cruisers), the downside of those is that if you loose them you loose a portion of SP in their subsystem skills.

And usually it means that better ships are more expensive, but not in general this means that bigger (or more expensive) is always better.

A good guidance for missions is:

L1: Frigate / Destroyers
L2: Destroyers / Cruisers
L3: Cruisers / Battlecruisers
L4: Battlecruisers / Battleships or T3 Cruiser
L5: BS or T3 / fleet of ships

The first in the list means it's possible but you might struggle a bit when on low skills, the 2nd listed will do it more easily (again if you have the proper skills to fly it though, so don't rush into a ship just because of it).

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Kasperow
Starside Industries
#5 - 2012-03-14 12:39:30 UTC
First off, the Stabber Fleet Issue is a T1 Faction-ship. Not a T3-ship.

Secondly, they're called Level 2 Missions (or L2 among a few players), not T2 Missions.

With that out of the way, for L2 missions, you should go for a T1 basic cruiser. The Stabber is a good ship to go with for the first long time, and is even (when you get better skills) able to solo L3's as well. Another good thing about it is that it's a Speed-Tank ship, and is the best ship to practice with if you want to fly a Vagabond later, as they use the exact same support-skills, except the Vagabond needs the Heavy Assault Ships skill as well.

Once you're in your awesome little rusty Stabber, you don't need to worry about getting a bigger ship for a while. Spend the time training your support-skills, get the most out of your ship and then get a Vagabond when you can afford it and you can run Level 4 missions in a smaller ship, without having to resort to T3-cruisers. If you have two accounts, having one skilled for Logistics (remote-repair) can be pretty useful, as it means less focus on tanking the damage you might receive, and more focus on raw damage.

But then again, everyone has their own way of playing. Hopefully, you'll find yours soon enough.
Kata Amentis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-03-14 13:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kata Amentis
4 days in eh?

I think you should look at the rupture as a "mission cruiser" it's tougher and does more damage than the stabber, carries a few more drones for the frig killing etc. The stabber's main strength is it's speed, which isn't that useful in pve.

After you've got the skills to fly a rupture you're not too far off getting a hurricane battlecruiser, the rupture's larger brother, which is more than capable for lvl 3 missions.

Try not to look at the "shiny" ships like Fleet Issue variants or Tech 2 ships until you're happy with the basic Tech 1 hull they are based on. They are more expensive which can hurt if you get something wrong, much better to learn with the cheaper hulls.

Curiosity killed the Kata... ... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count.

Hun Hau Wehwurt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-03-14 13:24:33 UTC
Thank you for your advise and sry for the wrong terms.

I am not sure that my confusion gets smaler.

One tells me to skip even the cruisers and go for battleships an other one tells me to stay at thedestroyers but I think I will go for the Rupture and then get some skills.....for about the next 400 days I guess Big smile
Xerces Ynx
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-03-14 13:56:31 UTC
If that's the account you are using for L2 missions then the main cause of your problems is very clear: your skills are too low. You need MUCH more than 6 days of training destroyers, weapons and support skills to be effective in this ship. You probably have only basic skills required to get into this class and that is enough only for most L1 missions. Train "Destroyers" skill to at least level IV, your weapon of choice to the level allowing you to use T2 modules, "Core Competency" and proper "Defence" certificates to at least basic. With the right tactics you should be OK in many L2 missions flying a destroyer.

Unlike other MMOs, character progression in EVE is more "horizontal" than "vertical". You are perfecting one class by training skills and flying ships, then you move on to the next one (skipping some if you want and can). Basic skills == no skills. And no, getting into a (T3) cruiser won't help much here. You will only switch from one unskilled ship to the other and you can fail L2 mission even in a cruiser.

I think you are rushing too much. Fly frigates and destroyers, do something else besides missions and train your skills during that time. There is no player level here, you don't need to finish L5 missions as soon as possible... You don't even need to finish any mission at all. Take your time and have fun doing whatever you want. You are not leveling by doing missions and missioning is not the main activity in EVE.

If you like missions, go to Arnon system and talk to sister Alitura. This will start an Epic Arc (a chain of 50 missions with common story line) that can be done in a frigate or destroyer. You will gain some experience and do fun stuff. And don't rush.

Error reading signature file: /home/xerces/.signature: No such file or directory

Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-03-14 14:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Aethlyn
Hun Hau Wehwurt wrote:
Thank you for your advise and sry for the wrong terms.

I am not sure that my confusion gets smaler.

One tells me to skip even the cruisers and go for battleships an other one tells me to stay at thedestroyers but I think I will go for the Rupture and then get some skills.....for about the next 400 days I guess Big smile

All 3 options are viable. Battlecruisers essentially trade speed and signature radius (how easy it is to hit you; how bad missiles hit you) for more tank and a bit more damage. Battleships (not sure if you meant battlecruisers) is something I'd leave aside for now, because they require significant more skills, plus L4 missions are a lot more complicated (e.g. having webbing and scrambling in almost every mission; making you lose a ship due to mistakes a lot easier).

For level 2 missions, a cruiser is more than sufficient, while a battlecruiser will make it a lot easier (actually too easy, cause with it it's easier to fly level 3 missions).

In the end it's up to you, and battlecruisers as well as normal cruisers can be used to fly L2/L3 with their own pros and cons. It's not that easy to "skip" cruisers anyway, cause a battlecruiser hull (in most Minmatar cases a Hurricane) will cost you about 25 millions. So feel free to grab the cruiser you like first, get used to it, and once you think you want an upgrade, grab a battlecruiser.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-03-15 07:38:41 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Aethlyn wrote:
Hun Hau Wehwurt wrote:
Thank you for your advise and sry for the wrong terms.

I am not sure that my confusion gets smaler.

One tells me to skip even the cruisers and go for battleships an other one tells me to stay at thedestroyers but I think I will go for the Rupture and then get some skills.....for about the next 400 days I guess Big smile

All 3 options are viable. Battlecruisers essentially trade speed and signature radius (how easy it is to hit you; how bad missiles hit you) for more tank and a bit more damage. Battleships (not sure if you meant battlecruisers) is something I'd leave aside for now, because they require significant more skills, plus L4 missions are a lot more complicated (e.g. having webbing and scrambling in almost every mission; making you lose a ship due to mistakes a lot easier).

For level 2 missions, a cruiser is more than sufficient, while a battlecruiser will make it a lot easier (actually too easy, cause with it it's easier to fly level 3 missions).

In the end it's up to you, and battlecruisers as well as normal cruisers can be used to fly L2/L3 with their own pros and cons. It's not that easy to "skip" cruisers anyway, cause a battlecruiser hull (in most Minmatar cases a Hurricane) will cost you about 25 millions. So feel free to grab the cruiser you like first, get used to it, and once you think you want an upgrade, grab a battlecruiser.


This, but also take some good advice from Xerces Ynx post. You likely are rushing into bigger ships to quickly (common mistake by many new pilots though who think bigger is better, same counted for me when I started playing EVE). Take your time to get skills up for a certain ship class so you can effectively use it. Commonly being able to sit in a ship doesn't mean you can use it.

To give a quick example why this is true, I have an alt character that can "fly" all races up to T1 battlecruisers and some battleships. This means it can fly the ships from station A to station B while I do other things with my main character(s).
It how ever can't do anything with a ship that isn't minmatar cruiser or below, because it lacks the skills to use (most) modules on it. So even if I would take a battleship into a level 2 with it, it will die horribly as I can't actually use that ship.

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