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Nightmare vs non sansha/br rats...
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Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-13 12:00:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Maureen Biologist
Hi guys.

For various reasons I'm getting rid of my mach/vargur pilot so I need to train up a new mission running alt. I love amarr ships in general, but my big worry is as a general purpose mission runner I will always encounter some missions that arent against em/therm weak rats (AE, WC etc) and I was wondering how the nightmare fares against such rats?

Of course I could train a 2nd ship, but that will most likely result in having to train a 2nd weapon system too, which dramatically increases the training time.

edit: obviously I will be flying missions in amarr space.

2nd edit: Bah, I realise that I've posted this in the wrong forum really. If it gets moved it gets moved, I'm not gonna double post. Sorries.
Linda Soh
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-03-13 12:48:27 UTC
Maureen Biologist wrote:
Hi guys.

For various reasons I'm getting rid of my mach/vargur pilot so I need to train up a new mission running alt. I love amarr ships in general, but my big worry is as a general purpose mission runner I will always encounter some missions that arent against em/therm weak rats (AE, WC etc) and I was wondering how the nightmare fares against such rats?

Of course I could train a 2nd ship, but that will most likely result in having to train a 2nd weapon system too, which dramatically increases the training time.

edit: obviously I will be flying missions in amarr space.

2nd edit: Bah, I realise that I've posted this in the wrong forum really. If it gets moved it gets moved, I'm not gonna double post. Sorries.


Nightmare is not optimal against Guristas/Angel but they work fine against Serpentis. Still, weapon systems aside, your alt won't be far off from a CNR.
Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-03-13 13:24:30 UTC
I know the nightmare isn't optimal vs caldari/angels, but is it bad to the point of just not worth doing? if I was going to train a 2nd ship I would train HAM Sacrilege or HM Tengu. I'd never fly a raven because the weapon system is entirely redundant.

Just, if possible, I'd like to avoid training for a 2nd ship as that will practically double the time required to effectively run lvl 4's. Otherwise I may aswell train the 2nd ship first, and go for nightmare after.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-03-13 13:43:35 UTC
The nightmare has enough dps to be able to plow through lvl 4's with angels/guristas. However, a good part of the nightmares tank relies on it being able to kill things rapidly, and with the effective dps cut about in half its tank becomes borderline too. This means that if the nightmare is the only ship you have available, you can still use it, but if you have something else better suited to the missions you would be better to switch to that.

-Arazel
Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-03-13 14:11:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Maureen Biologist
So, are you saying that I could get by using the nightmare for general purpose missioning untill I get a tengu or similar sorted out after the fact?

I love my agent but she does occasionally give me guristas assault and relatively often WC/AE. pretty much every other mission she gives is sansha/br. except the occasional drone one.

Edit: or, to swing the topic entirely, how about torp golem? ang good? long ass training time. I'm trying to avoid tengu/mach because I'm bored of using em for missions.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#6 - 2012-03-13 18:37:37 UTC
You will never regret a nightmare for incursions. Smile
stoicfaux
#7 - 2012-03-13 19:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Maureen Biologist wrote:

Edit: or, to swing the topic entirely, how about torp golem? ang good? long ass training time. I'm trying to avoid tengu/mach because I'm bored of using em for missions.

Meh, Golem isn't worth the training time, IMHO: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=65340

EHP of Gist Commander (Low End, Common Angel Battleship):
EM: 28,892
Expl: 16,434
Kin: 18,925
Therm: 22,663

EHP versus IN Multifrequency: 25,853.
EHP versus RF Fusion: 16,789.3

If you're getting "off"-faction missions infrequently, then it's probably not worth the time to train a second ship.

Plan C is to get your *faction* standings high enough so that you can decline more than one mission every four hours. (Declining a mission hits you with a minuscule standings loss.) Your corporation standings will take a noticeable hit, but as long as your *faction* standing is high enough to run level 4s you'll be okay. Just don't let your corp standings go below -2.0 or you will lose access to the corp's agents of level 2+.

Plan D is to buy another Vargur/Mach pilot.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-03-13 20:00:16 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
The nightmare has enough dps to be able to plow through lvl 4's with angels/guristas. However, a good part of the nightmares tank relies on it being able to kill things rapidly, and with the effective dps cut about in half its tank becomes borderline too. This means that if the nightmare is the only ship you have available, you can still use it, but if you have something else better suited to the missions you would be better to switch to that.

-Arazel


That may be true, but for Guristas/Angel you need a completely different resist profile. A nightmare has much less problems fitting a decent tank against Angel and nobody has any problems fitting a decent tank against Guristas so you don't need the gank as much as you do against EM rats.
It is not perfect, but it will work. Better than some half assed CNR with meta4 cruises anyway.

That said, there is no point in not training for a Tengu (or anything else) for the occasional Angel/Guristas/Serpentis mission if you can spare the training time.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#9 - 2012-03-14 04:41:59 UTC
Maureen Biologist wrote:
So, are you saying that I could get by using the nightmare for general purpose missioning untill I get a tengu or similar sorted out after the fact?

I love my agent but she does occasionally give me guristas assault and relatively often WC/AE. pretty much every other mission she gives is sansha/br. except the occasional drone one.

Edit: or, to swing the topic entirely, how about torp golem? ang good? long ass training time. I'm trying to avoid tengu/mach because I'm bored of using em for missions.


nightmare is one of the best ships in game for the assault, just hit the gate asap and kill the far group, mission complete in a few mins, and little to no jamming doing it that way! IN Standard hits out at lock range, can kill the dessys with 1 gun, and the bcs take a volley and a half or so at that range, the bs take a few more hits but a lot easier than counting volleys like on a missile boat. that and miss counting or unlucky defender at 100km is the most annoying feeling I've ever had in eve.

AE is a slightly more annoying, a few structures you can kill to get it over faster, but angels mostly have low enough HP that it isn't too painful.

in amarr space nightmare is awesome! sansha/angel WC I think is the annoying version though.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-03-14 08:59:22 UTC
gurista missions in a nightmare are no fun. so are missions where you have to slowboat to gates. therefore i'd strongly recommend you train up tengu on the side and use it for ae, wc and all guristas missions.
on the plus side, sansha, blood raiders, drones and serpentis really melt to a well skilled nightmare :D

I should buy an Ishtar.
Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-14 12:03:45 UTC
Ok, cheers guys ^^... I think I'll train nightmare up first and see how it goes from there!
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-03-14 14:21:24 UTC
Maureen Biologist wrote:
I'd never fly a raven because the weapon system is entirely redundant.




You where talking about a mission alt right?

Cruise missiles aren;t the best weapons in the game but for PvE they work well enough.

A raven/ CNR or CNS can be flown faster than a tengu, they'll run most missions faster than a tengu.

Ham's are probably the worst chose for PVE there is, the training time HAM'S take to be efficient in PVE is longer than training Cruise missiles.
Maureen Biologist
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-14 20:40:06 UTC
I just see cruise missiles as worthless. There are a small handfull of ships that they work well on but frankly I'd rather train a tengu than any of them. Or a golem.

I went and tried a fairly lolfit pve sacrilege on my main briefly last night and while it does good dps its way too limited by range, so I've ruled that out.

To be honest I'll stick with nightmare for now and possibly add tengu later.