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Exploration questions
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Natterman
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-13 19:29:02 UTC
Hello everyone!

Recently I found out about Exploration and how much fun it actually is Smile. I tried to google for some guides but wasn't able to really find a good one, so I figured I better ask you guys.
So the first and most important thing is, the ship. I can fly Amarr well and Gallente decent, so even though everyone uses a tengu for exploration, I prefer to use something else.
So what is a good Amarr/Gallente ship + fit for high/low sec exploration.

Secondly I was wondering what skills I need to get, do this well and what sites are worth doing and what sites not. I can imagine that the mining sites are not worth doing and the others are, but is there any difference between the combat sites I may find?
Think this will be enough for the time being and the rest I will find out myself once I have my ship. So any help with that would be really appreciated Smile.

Natterman.
Burtzum
Det Som Engang Var
#2 - 2012-03-13 19:38:41 UTC
Ishtar.

Train for deep space probes. Skip everything but DED rated 3/10, 4/10, 5/10.
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-03-13 19:39:31 UTC
Tengu is the king of exploration...

That said, Gallente has the Proteus and the Ishtar, both are quite good for the job, Amarr has the Legion. As a general rule one could say "If in doubt, go t3".
If you're looking for a cheaper alternative both Vexor and Arbitrator can deal with lowsec Radar/Magnetometric sites.

Quote:

[Arbitrator, !]
Damage Control II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Shadow Serpentis Energized Reflective Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Energized Thermic Membrane

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Analyzer I
Codebreaker I
Experimental 10MN Afterburner

Prototype Cloaking Device I
Salvager I
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5


That's my Arbitrator fit - Switch hardeners as needed, the passive faction ones are dirt cheap and I always have a full set with me.
MWD to get out of gatecamps and to cross larger distances in the bigger sites, AB for tanking. Others use a gun instead of the nos, I like the extra bit of cap, most times you get instant aggro anyway.

I don't have fits for a Vexor/Ishtar as I don't use them, but they should look similar (Ishtar may be shield tanked without the Analyzer/Codebreaker/Salvager and focus on combat sites though)

Legion/Proteus are straightforward enough, put together a fit with Scanning + Cloak subsystem and take a complete combat fit with you to refit once you scanned something down.
Ank Parkor
WildSpace Otters
#4 - 2012-03-13 21:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ank Parkor
Ok, let's suppose you're a beginner, if not don't read my reply and go for a tengu like everyone and their dog.

Natterman wrote:
Hello everyone

Recently I found out about Exploration and how much fun it actually is Smile. I tried to google for some guides but wasn't able to really find a good one, so I figured I better ask you guys
So the first and most important thing is, the ship. I can fly Amarr well and Gallente decent, so even though everyone uses a tengu for exploration, I prefer to use something else
So what is a good Amarr/Gallente ship + fit for high/low sec exploration.


High and low sec are two very different things Pirate
In Hi sec I use an Harby, simple and efficient, and for low sec... an Harby Cool
It's a cheap ship you can afford to lose. I just replace the salvager by a prototype cloak when I go to low sec. Furthermore the drone bay allows to use 5 Hob + 5 EW drones in case of unexpected agression.


Quote:
Secondly I was wondering what skills I need to get, do this well and what sites are worth doing and what sites not. I can imagine that the mining sites are not worth doing and the others are, but is there any difference between the combat sites I may find
Think this will be enough for the time being and the rest I will find out myself once I have my ship. So any help with that would be really appreciated Smile

Natterman.


About the skill Astrometrics IV and the three others to III are enough to skip one range at each scan.
Use the sisters launchers or at least their probes, it is a handful help. It can be found everywhere in contracts.

Mining sites are worth doing, the major advantage is that you're alone the most of the time, everything for you Smile You can sell the bookmark too.
Magnetometric (salvaging sites) are a waste of time.
Radar are always great, the smallest will give you some millions.
Combat sites become interesting at 4/10 (Zul-Matah Monastery and the new intelligence point for Amarr space are the best to me).

Usually I do exploration in The Bleak Lands, an awesome empty space full of space dust and nothing else.
Radar/combat sites in hi-sec and radar only for low sec.
I have ever lost my lovely Harbinger to a pirate in low sec but using a so cheap ship make the whole trip interesting at the first radar site.

[u]Short time trader, short term missionner, long term ambitions.[/u]

Bring justice to EVE: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1171333
Skrupler
#5 - 2012-03-13 22:07:19 UTC
I use both Ishtar and Tengu (Ishtar for low-sec as it won't hurt as much to lose it) and I have to say that the Ishtar with drones is a hundred million times slower than the Tengu when it comes to combat sites. Everyone and their dog will have time to scan you down and steal "your loot" right in front of your nose with their Tengu's.
Charait
Red South Fantoms
#6 - 2012-03-13 22:42:50 UTC
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
Tengu is the king of exploration...

That said, Gallente has the Proteus and the Ishtar, both are quite good for the job, Amarr has the Legion. As a general rule one could say "If in doubt, go t3".
If you're looking for a cheaper alternative both Vexor and Arbitrator can deal with lowsec Radar/Magnetometric sites.

Quote:

[Arbitrator, !]
Damage Control II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Shadow Serpentis Energized Reflective Membrane
Shadow Serpentis Energized Thermic Membrane

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Analyzer I
Codebreaker I
Experimental 10MN Afterburner

Prototype Cloaking Device I
Salvager I
Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
E50 Prototype Energy Vampire

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hammerhead II x5


That's my Arbitrator fit - Switch hardeners as needed, the passive faction ones are dirt cheap and I always have a full set with me.
MWD to get out of gatecamps and to cross larger distances in the bigger sites, AB for tanking. Others use a gun instead of the nos, I like the extra bit of cap, most times you get instant aggro anyway.

I don't have fits for a Vexor/Ishtar as I don't use them, but they should look similar (Ishtar may be shield tanked without the Analyzer/Codebreaker/Salvager and focus on combat sites though)

Legion/Proteus are straightforward enough, put together a fit with Scanning + Cloak subsystem and take a complete combat fit with you to refit once you scanned something down.


I find your advice very clean and helpful but always wanted to ask and that may be interesting to the author of this post: in T3 case do use suggest careering subs with you and alternative fitt isn't is financially risky? I mean of course it is but is worse it? Especially in low sec. Sorry for such dumb questions but needed to ask any way :)
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-03-13 22:50:48 UTC
You need offensive fits for completing the sites in a decent timeframe and you need the cloak/scanning sub for save travel and quick and safe scanning - Yes, the financial loss is bigger when you lose a t3 with additional subsystems
BUT - It is not a bigger financial risk, as you will lose fewer ships due to cloak and due to less time spend to complete the sites.
Natterman
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-03-13 22:55:04 UTC
Thanks for all the good advice guys!
Just fit myself an arbitrator and gonna try out some scanning in high sec :).

Could I see the harbinger fit you use Ank Parkor? And if you have one, a legion fit aswell ? :) If I like scanning enough I am gonna get myself a legion ^^.

How hard are the combat sites I may find? Are they labaled as DED complexes or just regular combat sites ?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#9 - 2012-03-13 22:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Edit: post got eaten. Bottom line: yes, you need both combat and probing/travel fits to make full use of a T3.
Charait
Red South Fantoms
#10 - 2012-03-13 23:03:09 UTC
Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
You need offensive fits for completing the sites in a decent timeframe and you need the cloak/scanning sub for save travel and quick and safe scanning - Yes, the financial loss is bigger when you lose a t3 with additional subsystems
BUT - It is not a bigger financial risk, as you will lose fewer ships due to cloak and due to less time spend to complete the sites.

Thanks! That inspires!
Charait
Red South Fantoms
#11 - 2012-03-13 23:04:33 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Edit: post got eaten. Bottom line: yes, you need both combat and probing/travel fits to make full use of a T3.

Thanks to you too! I will sleep with it and try to make it right tomorrow))
Charait
Red South Fantoms
#12 - 2012-03-13 23:14:36 UTC
Ank Parkor wrote:
Ok, let's suppose you're a beginner, if not don't read my reply and go for a tengu like everyone and their dog.

Natterman wrote:
Hello everyone

Recently I found out about Exploration and how much fun it actually is Smile. I tried to google for some guides but wasn't able to really find a good one, so I figured I better ask you guys
So the first and most important thing is, the ship. I can fly Amarr well and Gallente decent, so even though everyone uses a tengu for exploration, I prefer to use something else
So what is a good Amarr/Gallente ship + fit for high/low sec exploration.


High and low sec are two very different things Pirate
In Hi sec I use an Harby, simple and efficient, and for low sec... an Harby Cool
It's a cheap ship you can afford to lose. I just replace the salvager by a prototype cloak when I go to low sec. Furthermore the drone bay allows to use 5 Hob + 5 EW drones in case of unexpected agression.


Quote:
Secondly I was wondering what skills I need to get, do this well and what sites are worth doing and what sites not. I can imagine that the mining sites are not worth doing and the others are, but is there any difference between the combat sites I may find
Think this will be enough for the time being and the rest I will find out myself once I have my ship. So any help with that would be really appreciated Smile

Natterman.


About the skill Astrometrics IV and the three others to III are enough to skip one range at each scan.
Use the sisters launchers or at least their probes, it is a handful help. It can be found everywhere in contracts.

Mining sites are worth doing, the major advantage is that you're alone the most of the time, everything for you Smile You can sell the bookmark too.
Magnetometric (salvaging sites) are a waste of time.
Radar are always great, the smallest will give you some millions.
Combat sites become interesting at 4/10 (Zul-Matah Monastery and the new intelligence point for Amarr space are the best to me).

Usually I do exploration in The Bleak Lands, an awesome empty space full of space dust and nothing else.
Radar/combat sites in hi-sec and radar only for low sec.
I have ever lost my lovely Harbinger to a pirate in low sec but using a so cheap ship make the whole trip interesting at the first radar site.

I will join Natterman and ask you for Harbi fitt if you so kind :)
Ank Parkor
WildSpace Otters
#13 - 2012-03-13 23:40:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ank Parkor
Natterman wrote:
Could I see the harbinger fit you use Ank Parkor? And if you have one, a legion fit aswell ? :) If I like scanning enough I am gonna get myself a legion ^^.?


[Harbinger, low SP exploration]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Cap Recharger II
10MN Afterburner II
Codebreaker I
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Core Probe Launcher I
Salvager I

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgobelins II * 5
Hornet EC-300 * 5

Replacing an EANM and the Damage Control by two specifics hardeners for hi sec is a good idea.
Keep as it is for low sec if like me, your only chance of survive an encounter is to escape Cry

It's cap stable easily, pretty cheap and tank is more than enough for 4/10 DED.

Quote:
How hard are the combat sites I may find? Are they labaled as DED complexes or just regular combat sites ?


4/10 complexes are the same level of difficulty of the hardest L3 missions.

If you have low SP you will have to become a pro of kitting. For example second room of Zul Matah has more than 20 cruisers and they all neut. Don't expect to stay like a brick, they all aggro, along with the 20+ sentry towers Smile
Others are easier but will require some skills like drones (x Intelligence Collection has shitload of frigates per room), just high dps (blood vigil with 4 EM forcefields that repair all friendly units) or average tanking skills (numeros waves of the blood watch).

Like for missions it is a good idea to look when you are about to warp in on Evelopedia or similar sites.
All complexes have some particulities that you need to know before enter.

Last thing, keep in mind that rewards are random. You can have some awesome faction modules or BPC worth more than 100M, or only some crappy meta 1 warp scrambler.
Oh, and forget about drones complexes. They all suck in high sec, it takes too long for a small chance of a T2 salvage.

[u]Short time trader, short term missionner, long term ambitions.[/u]

Bring justice to EVE: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1171333
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-03-13 23:49:51 UTC
Ank Parkor wrote:

[Harbinger, low SP exploration]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Cap Recharger II
10MN Afterburner II
Codebreaker I
Cap Recharger II

Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I
Core Probe Launcher I
Salvager I

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hobgobelins II * 5
Hornet EC-300 * 5


I can't recommend this fit. It dies to the first gatecamp it encounters - You'll either have to fly something fast, have a MWD or a cloak - Preferable all three, otherwise you will die very often.

If this is for highsec only (which it isn't, it wouldn't have the ECM drones otherwise), remove the salvager and add a 7th turret. Magnetometric sites are not worth running in highsec.
Ank Parkor
WildSpace Otters
#15 - 2012-03-13 23:58:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ank Parkor
I fully agree.

In my first answer I recommend replacing the salvager by a cloak for low sec. The first intent is that it allows to scan without having to worry. But I agree that a MWD will be better than an AB if you plan to spend some time in low sec.
The MWD/cloak trick still works fine Smile

About the 7th turret it is just a matter of skills. Assuming low SP it won't be possible without implants or some training in advanced weapon upgrades.

The point is to make a ship viable with some millions SP and that you can afford to lose -which will likely happen in low sec-.
If you get caught, launch your jamming drones and spam your warp shortcut. Low SP + opponent who chooses you = low chances of survival.
I am far to be a vet, I just tell what has worked and still works for me.

Anyway what will be the point of running hi sec complexes if you can fly a T3 ship and can afford to lose several of them? You surely have better to do Bear

[u]Short time trader, short term missionner, long term ambitions.[/u]

Bring justice to EVE: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1171333
Sefner
Banana Enterprises
#16 - 2012-03-14 01:07:14 UTC
As the OP is (seemingly) new to the exploration game, can I humbly suggest training for an Ishkur for hisec exploring. Its pretty easy to skill for and naturally leads into the skillsets you need for the Ishtar (suggested above at various points).

The Ishkur can handle any hisec combat site with the possible exception of a couple of the ones in Amarr space and can have a good crack at the easier losec ones. You may need to carry a few modules for swapping fits around to setup for radar sites and optimising your tank but (speaking from experience) its a great and flexible little ship.

My only word of caution is that you wont run sites as fast as a T3/ExploroHAC so choose the areas you are scanning in with care.

Nonetheless, I can heartily recommend an Ishkur for low SP, low ISK outlay exploring.
Natterman
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-03-15 07:13:07 UTC
Hee guys!

I have done quite alot of exploration lately, both in an arbitrator and a myrmidon and well I both find them to be rather weak and clean up sites really slow. So I decided to get something else.
I like to do exploration in low-sec as there are less people.
So my question is, shall I get a dedicated scanner ship and a dps battecruiser or shall I get a all in one legion or perhaps a scanner + a legion.
And what fit for the legion/dps ship will work good ? :)

Thanks in advance,
Natterman.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2012-03-15 07:42:39 UTC
Skrupler wrote:
I use both Ishtar and Tengu (Ishtar for low-sec as it won't hurt as much to lose it) and I have to say that the Ishtar with drones is a hundred million times slower than the Tengu when it comes to combat sites. Everyone and their dog will have time to scan you down and steal "your loot" right in front of your nose with their Tengu's.


Would be interesting to see that Tengu fit, form what I've seen the numbers don't back your claim much.

Ishtar can fit a cloak and probes without hurting it's already much higher, instantly applied DPS. Not bashing the Tengu, it's a great ship with all the advantages of T3 (and some), and it beats Ishtar in the higher end plexes (where Ishtar needs to resort to shield tank, decreasing the drone tracking), but I've consistently won Tengus in GSOs in an Ishtar, and it wasn't even hard.

Of course ship is mostly a personal preference, success is certainly not dependent on the ship type- fly what you like most :)

.