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Incoming titan adjustments

First post First post
Author
Richter Enderas
Kaesong Kosmonauts
#741 - 2012-03-13 21:18:43 UTC
man grath is so buttfrustrated it's embarassing

just unsub dude and go play wot

at least you can pay to win there
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#742 - 2012-03-13 21:19:34 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

Weaselior wrote:


a better flown and composed fleet


This is also a lie, as you well know that even the best fleet comp can be swamped through sheer numbers, even when perfectly flown, especially with the state of Artillery alpha.

So again, what beats 1200 dudes (and to the guy that said 600, you can get 600 dudes on a tuesday night with no effort, lets be realistic and think about your saturday 'timer' fleets).

maybe if you guys had better fcs and better theorycrafters you wouldn't need me to answer this question

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#743 - 2012-03-13 21:19:37 UTC
Wanten wrote:
Seems like CCP have again alienated their veteran players, please remind me why i should continue to play when all i need to train for is a drake.

You had made some steps forward with your recent changes by consulting and listening to players, now you have taken two steps back towards blob warfare and super coalitions grinding the servers to a halt.


That's a lovely catchall given I'm a veteran player and think this is the best change ever.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#744 - 2012-03-13 21:20:38 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:

The last time was the Day1 invasion of branch, well over 4 months ago.


Try again, I can name at least 2 times since then that you've brought more than that (and thats from memory alone, not even digging up BR's), 2 weeks ago you had 750 drakes alone, but please, please carry on.

Just because you're not participating with the rest of your alliance doesn't mean they aren't carrying on without them.

you can't figure out how to beat 750 drakes?

don't think the blob is your problem

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Powers Sa
#745 - 2012-03-13 21:20:44 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Powers Sa wrote:

The last time was the Day1 invasion of branch, well over 4 months ago.


Try again, I can name at least 2 times since then that you've brought more than that (and thats from memory alone, not even digging up BR's), 2 weeks ago you had 750 drakes alone, but please, please carry on.

Just because you're not participating with the rest of your alliance doesn't mean they aren't carrying on without them.

You mean when we lose half a fleet and they reship?
I'm pretty sure everyone reships, we just make it a point to keep at least 3 fitted and ready to go into battle. It helps when we stage effectively. Our opponents don't seem to be that smart, but goons are dumb :V

The same people appear on those battle reports multiple times.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.

Swearte Widfarend
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#746 - 2012-03-13 21:20:46 UTC
Makalu Zarya wrote:
The scan res nerf is rather ridiculous. If you don't want titans locking subcaps, then simply implement a function where titans can't lock subcaps, that is really rather simple. As people know I like to throw my titan around and DD people who rep poses or aggro on stations. For that sort of warfare this is now completely useless. It will take 20+ seconds to lock a carrier with 3 sensor boosters. Stacking penalty makes it useless to fit any more than 3 really. So honestly any carebear who is not completely asleep at the wheel will be able to make it into the shields 10 times over in his carrier by the time he is even locked.

Another note is that a bs with mwd turned on has the same sig radius as a carrier, so honestly you can lock a bs just as fast if you want to. Lets actually look at some numbers here to further prove this nerf is fairly stupid.

Taking a titan with base scan res 5, putting in 3 federation navy sensor boosters (and yes i'd put officer if it actually mattered a damn).
Perfect skill bonus gives u 1.25 multiplier, fleet 1.1 and sebos further 4.34. Put all these together and you get 5.97...lets call it 6/
This means your scan res is 30.
It will take 17.7s to lock a carrier, approximately as long as it will take to lock a bs with mwd on. Going down one step further bc with mwd on (much more likely scenario) will have a sig radius of around 1400-2000 (assuming no bonuses). This puts the lock time between 19 and 21s. So loking at it the difference in lock time of a mwding bc and a carrier is at most 4 seconds. Putting sig radius a lot lower at 400 for non-mwd bc such as drake lock time goes up to only 30s.

So in essence a titan will be able to lock any ship that it can actually hit in between 17 and 30s. Granted this is much slower than before but at the end of the day it should be able to lock capitals SIGNIFICANTLY faster than subcaps and this nerf does not fix it in any shape way or form. All it does it make shield hugging carriers nearly immune to DD while bss and bcs on grid will still go pop...maybe not bcs so much, but bs still stand no chance against titans, they will be locked and hit rather will.

20s lock time...7s cycle time on guns, that means even with 3 locked targets any titan will have 3 bs perma-locked.

gg ccp...you didn't fix anything...you just made titans more useless against other caps as far as i'm concerned.



QFT (and I only fly carriers, not even SCs)

I know that it's hard for the Goonswarm posting crew to actually read and comprehend, but try, would you?

If a Titan is supposed to have an anti-capital role, signature radii on all capitals (including Titans) need an x10 boost to offset the x10 reduction in scan resolution. That needs to happen at the exact same time as the Titan changes.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.

Bagehi
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#747 - 2012-03-13 21:20:48 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Mynas Atoch wrote:

A charismatic leader with a good diplomatic team. EVE is full of them. They'd just rather blap frigates on gates in low sec in their invulnerable space donges.


This is not a game mechanic, and is in relative terms, no different than calling beating a supercap fleet through morale an effective counter.

What counters the 1200 dudes.

Weaselior wrote:


a better flown and composed fleet


This is also a lie, as you well know that even the best fleet comp can be swamped through sheer numbers, even when perfectly flown, especially with the state of Artillery alpha.

So again, what beats 1200 dudes (and to the guy that said 600, you can get 600 dudes on a tuesday night with no effort, lets be realistic and think about your saturday 'timer' fleets).


A fleet comprised of one size up ships should be able to handle a larger fleet of smaller ships. Shoot frigates with cruisers. Shoot cruisers with BCs. Shoot BCs with BSs. Shoot BSs with carriers. Shoot carriers with dreads or supers. Drop a few ship sizes, and throw more numbers, and you should again be able to beat them. aHACs against BSs, etc.
Krios Ahzek
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#748 - 2012-03-13 21:21:19 UTC
EVE Online - Bad World

 Though All Men Do Despise Us

Sun Zue
Fleet Angel's Security Corporation
WE FORM V0LTA
#749 - 2012-03-13 21:21:34 UTC
I like this Lol
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#750 - 2012-03-13 21:22:34 UTC
Pardon my ignorance as I know next to nothing of null, but does GSF not have a sizable cap/supercap fleet? How is this inherently beneficial to them?
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#751 - 2012-03-13 21:23:41 UTC
alright i got it

so titans are getting nerfed to within an inch of their life by, when, April?

this means that you have 2 weeks where titans are a unilateral iwin button

you know what this means right?

vfk by april
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#752 - 2012-03-13 21:23:53 UTC
Kazanir wrote:
There is no "counter" to 1200 dudes in a single engagement


Thanks, thats what i wanted to see.


But Titans were obviously what needed fixing most since they had no ...oh wait, dreads, slowcats (which can in fact tank titans, but thanks for thinking you understand eve mechanics) cyno jammers other supercap fleets and even sub caps that can kill them off.

Meanwhile, having 1200 dudes under one command is still totally uncounterable, but thats supposed to be ok.





To be entirely clear, the nerf changes nothing, an Erebus tracking fit will still volley a Maelstrom or a drake with no problem at all, even a 75% nerf to tracking wouldn't stop this from happening.

The 5 scan res is dumb, as it allows even regular caps to escape titans now, they can easily either warp off, jump out or dock up, its absurd that any ship class in eve would take 15 seconds to lock itself.


The single most bothering thing about the nerf is the idea it represents. It is essentially CCP's way of saying you either get your own fleet of 1200 dudes or you can't compete, end of discussion.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Pyztof
Perkone
Caldari State
#753 - 2012-03-13 21:24:41 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pardon my ignorance as I know next to nothing of null, but does GSF not have a sizable cap/supercap fleet? How is this inherently beneficial to them?


Because:

1. They never use it except when all of eve is asleep
2. They can't beat RDN otherwise
3. They cry when they can't beat someone through zerging
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#754 - 2012-03-13 21:25:55 UTC
Powers Sa wrote:

You mean when we lose half a fleet and they reship?


No i mean when you filled 4 fleets full of drakes and then charged into the waiting guns of 34 titans.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#755 - 2012-03-13 21:25:56 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pardon my ignorance as I know next to nothing of null, but does GSF not have a sizable cap/supercap fleet? How is this inherently beneficial to them?


We aren't entirely reliant on our massive blob of Titans to make any gains in nullsec warfare. Our current enemies are incompetent at conventional warfare. That's why they're whining so much.

We do have one of the largest stables of Titans in the game and this nerf effects us just as much in relation to our Titans.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.

Bagehi
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#756 - 2012-03-13 21:25:58 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Pardon my ignorance as I know next to nothing of null, but does GSF not have a sizable cap/supercap fleet? How is this inherently beneficial to them?


Goons have a large supercap fleet. But the CFC doesn't have enough supers to combat Raiden/NC or AAA/SOLAR or any combination of those with PL added into the mix. It is one thing to have one alliance with a lot of supers and another to have two-three alliances with a lot of supers working together.
Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#757 - 2012-03-13 21:26:16 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
So again, what beats 1200 dudes


A better question is, why should 100 dudes be able to beat those 1200 dudes without any serious risk to themselves?
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#758 - 2012-03-13 21:26:59 UTC
Tarsus Zateki wrote:

We aren't entirely reliant on our massive blob


Hahahahahahah, as if.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Machine Delta
Perkone
Caldari State
#759 - 2012-03-13 21:27:49 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Kazanir wrote:
There is no "counter" to 1200 dudes in a single engagement


Thanks, thats what i wanted to see.


But Titans were obviously what needed fixing most since they had no ...oh wait, dreads, slowcats (which can in fact tank titans, but thanks for thinking you understand eve mechanics) cyno jammers other supercap fleets and even sub caps that can kill them off.

Meanwhile, having 1200 dudes under one command is still totally uncounterable, but thats supposed to be ok.





To be entirely clear, the nerf changes nothing, an Erebus tracking fit will still volley a Maelstrom or a drake with no problem at all, even a 75% nerf to tracking wouldn't stop this from happening.

The 5 scan res is dumb, as it allows even regular caps to escape titans now, they can easily either warp off, jump out or dock up, its absurd that any ship class in eve would take 15 seconds to lock itself.


The single most bothering thing about the nerf is the idea it represents. It is essentially CCP's way of saying you either get your own fleet of 1200 dudes or you can't compete, end of discussion.



We already said bombers but you just ignored it until you got the answer you were fishing for you big crybaby.
Swearte Widfarend
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#760 - 2012-03-13 21:28:35 UTC
Bagehi wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
So again, what beats 1200 dudes (and to the guy that said 600, you can get 600 dudes on a tuesday night with no effort, lets be realistic and think about your saturday 'timer' fleets).


A fleet comprised of one size up ships should be able to handle a larger fleet of smaller ships. Shoot frigates with cruisers. Shoot cruisers with BCs. Shoot BCs with BSs. Shoot BSs with carriers. Shoot carriers with dreads or supers. Drop a few ship sizes, and throw more numbers, and you should again be able to beat them. aHACs against BSs, etc.


Um, Carriers? Sorry Bagehi - even with the new cool Sentry Cat thing PL used last week, Carriers aren't a realistic counter to BS. And Dreads have tracking issues (whether in Siege or not).

1200 dudes can be beaten by 1300 dudes.

And 1300 dudes by 1400, and so on, until TiDi wins, and the servers melt.

There is no counter to the blob - except a larger blob. That's the game CCP is implementing. I don't like Supercaps online, but this isn't a solution to the problem. It just makes Titan accounts buy/train/play other characters on those accounts while the Titans sit dormant in a tower somewhere.

Democracy is only as good as the despot managing the voting booth.