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A suggestion topic for the ship rebalance DevBlog
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tasman devil
Puritans
#1 - 2012-03-13 20:59:17 UTC
Okay,

Now that you somehow managed to land on this topic, let me post first the disclaimer, and a tl;dr:

Disclaimer: All of this is my idea of how the ship rebalance should be done. It may have some flaws but I will amend those flaws once solid points are made. I will disregard any post stating ‘baah this sucks’ without some valid points being made. You have been warned.

TL;DR: ships in my system are balanced based their respective race, and NOT across the board. Some ships may be discarded some ships added. I began work with the Amarr, and will work on the other races once I have enough time for them (placeholders will be inserted – watch for updates!). The balance here is my idea and how _I_ see the races respective fleet doctrines!

The special matrix used for the balance are the following:
1: Ships are balanced against Tier (I called them Generations because it resonates more with the big picture I have in my mind)
2: against size
3: against heritage (producing factions)
4: against roles
5: against damage dealing package (lasers, missiles, drones)


Note: image is *work in progress*, I will update it as we go!


What should (also) happen:
Ships should be rebalanced around a basic fitting principles. What does this mean? Slot layout, CPU and PG values are to be rebalanced around a basic idea of what the ship should do and what role it should fulfill in PvE/PvP situations and not to compare them against ships of other races (like: omg the Minmatar have 5PG more, ZOMG ZOMG!). And based upon this a basic fitting value is given (probably with a margin). This way we should be able to avoid situations where I have to employ PG rigs to squeeze in that last module for the perfect fit.
(I mean, take a step back and think: Isn't it kind of stupid to buy an T2 Guardian and then you have to outfit it with Meta2-3-4 modules because the CPU/PG can't handle a T2 fit on a T2 ship? Srsly? Wouldn't it be better to HAVE the bloody PG to have another Large Remote Armor Repairer II, and tinker with the rest of the fit!?).
You might argue that this will dumb down the game but I don't think that useless complexity is good for the game (or any game if you think about it). Complexity that is there for the sake of being there (because it was like so… for eons!) is useless and damaging and takes away valuable resources where they are really needed: to *play* and *enjoy* the game!

Ok what do I see here / how should I interpret this jumble?

First:
Look at the picture this way: the line between the noobship and the titan is the separator between mayor PvP roles for tech 2 ships. Above the line are ship needed (but NOT exclusively!) for large scale fleet warfare. Ships below the line are for large scale support (lockdown, RR, EW) and clandestine movements and for small scale gang warfare (ie. the whole Black Ops line).

Second:
Tech3 is really the odd one out and I had literally no idea (and no place left) where to place it. Same is with battle cruisers. Both destroyers and battlecruisers are a kind of a loose ends IMHO the destroyer line needs 2 more ships (and therefore 2-4 T2 variants too) and the other two BCs need Tech2 counterparts but I find it hard to find additional roles for those hulls as there are now not many roles additional destroyer hulls could fulfill and on the battlecruiser line. The Oracle for example in the Amarr line recently filled the role and the place where I would have placed the Harbinger’s Tech2 version (being fully damage dealers, much like the Zealot is in respect to the Omen-Maller). But even without adding additional ships the lines below battleships are sorely under-utilized (Sentinel, anyone?) and should be either purged or totally re-designed.

Third:
Ships are placed there on the skill requirement for them (for example lvl1 for Augoror, lvl2 for Arbitrator, lvl3 for Omen, lvl4 for Omen Navy Issue, etc) from left to right.

Fourth:
Ships –for now – have an almost arbitrary level of performance and hence performance is as follows:
Gen1 ships are the old tried and true warhorses of the navy. They may be old and their performance is modest in comparison to the others but they still pack a punch.
Gen2 ships perform better, have better fitting abilities and therefore perform acceptable.
Gen3 ships are where the doctrines splits (in all races) to halves: for example in the Amarr line's case it splits to a damage dealing ship and a tanking ship.

Fifth:
I added couple of roles here and there where I thought really roles were missing.

Sixth:
Faction ships are placed one skill level (and consequently one performance level) above the original hull. This should help with the sales (and the kaboom!) muhaha!

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
tasman devil
Puritans
#2 - 2012-03-13 20:59:28 UTC  |  Edited by: tasman devil
AMARR:
Being the largest and oldest of the four races they have the biggest empire and the ships with the biggest average age. Still their power is second to none and any race attempting to conquer them will walk away in blood… their own blood...
Amarrian fleet doctrine revolves around massive damage and solid armor. Although they have some special ships (especially at tech2 levels) they tend to stick to this simple approach.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2dbjl3a.png - Amarr Ship tree redefined

Q/A:

Frigate line change?
I have placed them in an order I think they would have ‘evolved’:Tormentor and Crucifier are the oldest(looking) hulls, their performance is adequate for level 1 missions but thats it. Inquisitor and Magnate are the Gen2 hulls that will become Covert Ops hull in tech2, their original form should somewhat foreshadow their tech2 career. And Executioner and Punisher are almost top of the line in the frigate class being only outclassed by the Imperial Navy Slicer (needs Frigates lvl4 to operate), their abilities foreshadow the Assault ships and Interceptor role they will take. Executioner will deal better damage at higher speeds while the Punisher will tank better. Running level 1-2 missions with them is no problem.

There is a rumble in the jungle in the Cov. Ops. side, what’s up with that?
There I wanted to place the ships more in line with the backdrops of Amarrian culture as Khanid being the only real missile spawning Amarrians out there. Therefore the Purifier is now of Khanid heritage and the Anathema is of Carthum heritage (stats are not affected by this!)

Cruiser line change?
Same as with the frigate line: the Augoror performs somewhat limited in level 2 missions while its faction and tech2 descendant is a formidable asset. The Arbitrator being a truly drone platform will inherit this (being a Gen2 ship) ability to its Recon Ops descendants. The Omen and the Maller are (just like the Executioner and the Punisher) the two sides of the Amarrian doctrine’s coin: one is for damage the other is for tanking. Their tech2 descendants place added emphasis on these abilities. And the Omen Navy Issue is a force to be reckoned with. The ship line-up represents a balanced, 3-3-3 variation of every hull.

What's up with the Zealot and the Guardian? Same as with the covops?
Yes: Viziam, being the nice chaps as they are, make really good tech2 support ship. Carthum on the other hand is known for destruction, so: backdrop change and no change in the performance. Guardian is now a nice pretty Viziam support boat, while Zealot earned a bloodthirsty Carthum heritage.

Erm… battlecruisers?
I employed no change there because quite frankly I don't know what to do with them. I would have been perfectly happy if the Oracle would have been introduced as the Tech2 counterpart of the Harbinger (one variant being a Khanid missile spawning and the other variant a Carthum laser boat). This setup worked with the Command sip line perfectly. Adding a tier3 (Gen3) boat has its own logic, but fails when compared with the pre- and post- lines I prefer to use here… :’-(

Battleship line change?
I followed the same breakup: Armageddon is an adequate lvl4 performer (but for true performance, look further) its abilities make for a perfect fleet flagship. The Apocalypse performs everything a little bit better, and the Abaddon is a true wild card considering it can be configured for a brick wall tank or a devastating force (its tech2 counterparts reflect on this, both being formidable tankers and/or damage dealers). Faction ships perform everything a little bit better and therefor earned a higher ladder status. The line-up I draw up here has a balanced approach by having 3-3-3 variants of each ship hulls. (Although I am toying with the idea of ditching that Field interdictor for a Faction Abaddon… hmmm)

Flagships, wut?
I had submitted an Idea some time ago that involved raising the fleet limit from 255 people to 1000. This ship would be the pinnacle of Amarrian Fleet Commanding doctrine with added boost effect for the fleets that will (hopefully) come to realisation in the near future. But OK, consider this with a question mark!

Marauders are now Abaddon hulled?
Yes, strange as it seems it is actually quite logical: on the frigate and cruiser levels the Interceptor the assault and heavy assault ships are a valuable assets to fleet warfare and they being Gen3 hulls to begin with it is only logical that we HAVE a Gen3 Tech2 hull as a fleet damager/tanker on the battleship line too. With a little buff to this ship line we might see that they will move out of their status as ‘PvE ships De Luxe’, and take their righteous place amongst their brethren in the fleet line-up.

Field Interdictors?? haha!
Yes, haha. I am actually playing a gamble here, as there is only one REAL role for such a ship: interdiction of supercapital ships (Supercarriers and Titans). This ship is to be regarded with a big question mark at the end!

Black ops is now… an Apoc hull, huh??
Yes, as stated earlier the Gen1 ships are used for support role in their Tech2 versions while Gen2 ships are where the black ops magic happens (insert ponies here at your own peril). To be true to this idea, things need to change for things to stay the same. The Apocalypse's hull is even better suited for these maneuvers, don't you think?

Omg a transport ship in the black ops line… will it have lazorz? loool, faiiill!
Not exactly. I have placed that ship there because of the added role I think it should fulfil. The ship will have the ability to use the Covert Ops cloack and they will also be able to jump through Covert Ops cyno (like all ships of the covert/recon/black ops line). Lazors might be added but you are still better off using this ship as a cloacked ammo trolley

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
tasman devil
Puritans
#3 - 2012-03-13 20:59:41 UTC
CALDARI

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
tasman devil
Puritans
#4 - 2012-03-13 20:59:52 UTC
GALLENTE

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
tasman devil
Puritans
#5 - 2012-03-13 21:00:06 UTC
MINMATAR

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
tasman devil
Puritans
#6 - 2012-03-13 21:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: tasman devil
What got lost from the Amarr line:
Transport ships:
Consequently the Prorator will lose the ability to field Covert Ops Cloack but will gain the +2 warp strength.

Wait… a second dread?
Uhmm yeah, it SHOULD be there as the carriers get a super-duper SUPER tag in front of their names, something similar should happen on the other end: A SUPERdreadnaught tailor fit for SUPERcapital bashing, and generally tearing stationary structures apart faster.
(ps. it might be used for a FLAGSHIP role too!)


Placeholder for further

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Leto Aramaus
Frog Team Four
Of Essence
#7 - 2012-03-13 22:13:10 UTC
Man I read your entire post and I honestly couldn't make heads or tails of it.

Were you explaining the way things currently are?

Or were you explaining how you would like to them to be?

I absolutely believe ships need rebalanced but... WHAT the hell are you talking about?

The UI update we deserve
Valea Silpha
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-03-13 22:21:48 UTC
I can understand where you are coming from on all this, I really. I can even appreciate having some fairly similar ships in the same tech tree because of fleet doctrine. Amarr is the most obvious place for this, since they have the most blunt object doctrine.

I'd be more interested in what (if any) stats changed you have in mind rather than the more general tech-tree alterations tbh, but I'll be seeing how this works out.
tasman devil
Puritans
#9 - 2012-03-14 07:06:27 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
Man I read your entire post and I honestly couldn't make heads or tails of it.

Were you explaining the way things currently are?

Or were you explaining how you would like to them to be?

I absolutely believe ships need rebalanced but... WHAT the hell are you talking about?

Sorry mate! give me a day, and I will re-write it to make things clearer. But yeah I wanted to show how I think things should be done...

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
tasman devil
Puritans
#10 - 2012-03-14 07:07:34 UTC
Valea Silpha wrote:
I can understand where you are coming from on all this, I really. I can even appreciate having some fairly similar ships in the same tech tree because of fleet doctrine. Amarr is the most obvious place for this, since they have the most blunt object doctrine.

I'd be more interested in what (if any) stats changed you have in mind rather than the more general tech-tree alterations tbh, but I'll be seeing how this works out.

roger that!

I'll add those in about 10 hours, because right now I'm late for work (damn!)

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...