EVE General Discussion

Thanks, I somehow missed that one. Still no hard data though, but the conclusion seems logical. There probably are "issues" on both sides of the supply/demand dynamic.

If you do Havens and Sanctums, you'll get about 50-60m Isk/h before taxes == 42-51m Isk/h after taxes.
But, if there's any neut in local, you should dock, because anomalies are scannable with the ship scanner (that take only 10 sec), so the first thing everyone do, is scanning for sanctums / havens and headshot them, if they're looking for ganks.

I read it. I just wanted to let you know. I puked in my mouth repeatedly (Austrian School...oh just wretched again). I'm not sure Eve is ready for a debate on economic theories (I'm not sure Economics can handle it), but there's useful stuff to be mined out of that article (pun intended).

It did get me interested on why you think we can't have hyperinflation in Eve. I tend to agree with you. But I'd like to read your thoughts.

Fixing EVE's economy would be stupid easy, they just don't have the balls to do it.
Find every account that logged in, in space, doing stuff (not just sitting and/or on AP), for more than 75% of the time.
Ban them.
Ban every account associated with them.
Ban those CCs, ban their addresses, ban their emails, ban everything about them.
Do it again the next week.

Incursions aren't the problem. Bounties aren't the problem, 23.5/7 bots are the problem. Banning 2% of them one time isn't the solution, banning all of them is the solution.

It would be great for way to control the proliferation of Titans and Super Carriers though.

Instead of looking at it globally, look at it per-person. Good luck getting more than 50-60m/h missioning or ratting, but no problem getting 100m+ /h /person doing Incursions.

Fixing one issue and ignoring another is not fixing, it's a band aid.

I am a numbers person. Calculations and numbers seem to be the best way to put things in perspective. I've decided to put some numbers together, as this thread seemed to be lacking them. :)

Mining in high-sec with my maxed hulk will net me about 25 mil an hour if my alt is running my maxed Orca bonuses. The literal max is 27 mil where I mined in Minmatar space. I knock a couple mil off for loss due to wasted mining cycles. While this is clearly not incredable income, it's convenient for the level of safety (ignore ganking for now, i'll get to that.)

Now, the alt who flies the orca can also sport a maxed rattlesnake. When I do lvl 4 missions, i can scrape about 40 mil an hour with my mining toon following in a noctis. I understand more can be made, but I won't go into blizting, etc. as it seems clear that it's not the point to missions and I get the impression that CCP agrees.

As for exploration, ideally i can be the best income by far, as on occasions I can make average 60 mil from a few good sites in poorly explored constelations.

as for null-sec...

Mining arkonor, I max out at about 50 mil, literal 54 mil but again i knock a bit off for mining cycle imperfection. Same deal with a maxed Orca, maxed Rorqual can net you another 5 mil an hour.

Ratting in belts with the occasional faction spawn ignored, and disregarding the use of capitals, I can squeeze about 50 mil an hour in good bounty space with the system to myself in order to chain 1+ mil BS spawns. This disregards the loot, as I don't salvage in null, but say it's another 10 mil in good circumastances so 60 mil/hour altogether.

Now i take that same ship into havens/sanctums, I'm looking at closer to 90 mil an hour, again not using caps for reasons I will touch on later.

Above all, the biggest income I have generated in the game comes now....

Doing 8/10 - 10/10 Plexes, I could score as much as 600 mil in an hour, that's with an alt in a Logi so you could say 300 mil split between 2 people. of course, you can find the occasional crap plex, or the occasional OMGWTF smart bomb drop at well over a bil.

Recap time
high-sec mining <27 mil/hour
high-sec missions (level 4's) +- 40 mil/hour
0.0 mining < 55 mil/hour
0.0 ratting +- 60 mil/hour
0.0 anoms +- 90 mil/hour
High DED plexing 100 mil - 3 bil/ hour, averaging 300 mil/hour

So the topic of discusion is inflation, leading to "we hate incursions", leading to "we hate leet null-sec people" leading to, "can't we just blame the bots?"

I am primarily a builder. I started as a miner. I will say that the high-sec missions vs mining is fair. Why do you ask? well, both involve shooting things, but one involves shooting things that shoot back. Mission runners should get more per hour than miners. If you measured someone's interaction by monitoring key-strokes and mouse clicks, it would be clear that mission ratting is alot more work than mining.

0.0 seems mostly balanced in itself. my miner and my ratter are both intensively skilled, so it's reasonable for the 2 proffesions to be able to make similar income. Anoms are more difficult, and therefore deserve more return.
Plexes are where 0.0 shows an unbalance. Mining offers no officer drops or rare bpc's. This is partly made up for in the sheer rarity of good DED plexes, but it would be fair to bring similar opportunities to mining...
perhaps a new higher density asteroid in hard to find grav sites? Perhaps a drop that only occurs on chance from a completely mined out grav site? that would offer greater risk=reward for mining, as mining out a complete grav site which is balanced with all ore from veld to ark (sov grav sites for example) is a tedious and potentially unrewarding endeavor compared to cherry picking rocks from belt to belt.

Incursions are the hot topic as it were, and I have not participated in any. All I have is speculation from what others have posted, and to be blunt, having anything in the safety of high-sec that can generate more than any reasonably farmable activity in 0.0 is simply obsurd. If EVE is supposed to be about risk=reward, high-sec incursions are blasphemous. It would be reasonable to tone them down from the 100 mil/hour people speak of to maybe 45-50 mil/hour tops. That would make them comparable to belt ratting versus anoms in 0.0.

I have done everything from mining and manufacturing to missions to exploration. I've done all of these things in both empire and null-sec space. In 4 years of EVE i've seen prices skyrocket on many items/goods and sometimes it was dependent on updates or expansions while other times it was economy related. All I can gather from the spiking price of plexes, and general economic disorder of the past 12 months is that it can be easily speculated to be incursion related. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that possibility is misguided at best.

quick closing for some of the things i dodged earlier...
Ganking. If someone has been convicted of a violent crime, safe to say they're not going to be allowed to shop in a gun store for a while. It's nice that concord warns and then shoots Leet flashy reds in high-sec, but the whole 'hide your ship in your buddies orca' trick kinda sounds exploitish to me... Also, stargates can deny access to people after they aggress, but Concord can't set the stargates to deny flashy red access to high-sec altogether? I say, you get to -2.51, concordikened for locking a player in high-sec. get to -5, not getting through the gate into high-sec. "but what about those inocent people who don't know you can't fight in high-sec?" well, they would learn thouroughly as they fought to bring their sec-status back up.

Capitals in PVE... Come on now, I know CCP didn't make titans and dreads so they could 2 shot angel BS's. Capitals are for PVP. I say, if capitals go to anoms or plexes alone, they should get the same response they do in wormhole space. a lossmail.

So why don't you point out where they are wrong, or is that too much effort and risk? It's just easier to say wrong and not present an argument, isn't it?



You mean the gold that has rarely dropped below its 200 day moving average in the past 10 years? That gold?



Why don't explain it your self instead of blowing your hot air. Oh let me guess, you're full of crap and too lazy.

As for your childish insults, **** you too, and stop slobbering all over Krugman's ****. Have a nice day

Mining is a mineral faucet and ISK sink (via market and construction costs).



This is both an ISK and mineral faucet via bounties and loot drops.



This is a smallish ISK faucet (bounties) combined with a smallish ISK sink (market taxes on the loot drop).



Its cool to discuss various ISK/hr opportunities (and I encourage you too) but making 500M ISK/hr doing exploration injects far less ISK into the economy than making 500M ISK/hr doing Incursions or Anoms. Think about where your ISK comes from - from another player (via trading) or from the game itself (via a bounty or reward payout).

-Liang

I'm not concerned about your bodily functions.

Short version of why Eve can't have systemic hyperinflation is basically two things.

One, as more players enter the game and progress, not only do they generate ISK, their productive capacity and output also tend to increase, keeping the ratio of money to goods more or less aligned.

The other reason is, barring any serious screw ups by CCP, ISK added to the monetary base, over a given period, decreases as a percentage of the base in each subsequent period.

Using a very simple model, suppose the entire base were 100 ISK. And suppose the total ISK generating capacity of all players in a period were 10 ISK. In the first period the players can increase the base by 10%. In the next period it would be 9.09%, then 8.33%, 7.69%, etc. The model of course does not take into account growth in the user base, skill points (offset by productive capacity), velocity changes and changes CCP can make, but does illustrate the point.

The real world on the other hand, to get anything useful out of inflating purposefully (not to mention servicing existing debt) demands ever increasing additions to the money supply This is an exponential growth curve. Sooner or later the bucket will be full.