Market Discussions

just saw this on reddit

http://tinyurl.com/7zw2yxm

Advanced t2 mining crystals for 0.0 that provide a huge boost to veld mining. is doubling the modifier enough to make it worth mining trit in 0.0 again?

Not sure about trit... But I am shorting MD mineral speculation/manipulation threads, because supply is going up astronomically.

well they might not introduce a whole line of them, trit is pretty much the number one thing in 0.0 that you have to import in compressed forms to make building stuff viable, so i'd imagine it would drop the demand in empire for trit.

Either way, this will help null alliance become less dependant on highsec for raw material.

It would seem so, or the margin for compression and shipping would be so low it probably won't be worth it

Except that CCP designers failed the concept of "opportunity cost". There's no way that you will ever see minerals hit those values in that ratio, because with Trit at 1/2 the price of Pyerite, miners will simply stop mining ores which yield mostly Tritanium in favor of mining ores which yield mostly Pyerite.

That's why, historically, all hi-sec ores have all been worth about the same exact value, within 20% or so of each other. If Veld was up at 105 ISK/m3 while Scordite was down at 90 ISK/m3 - people flock to mining Veld instead of Scordite, which drives Veld's value down and nobody bothers with Scordite. Within a few weeks, now Scordite is at 105 ISK/m3 and Veld is back down at 90 ISK/m3, so everyone flocks back to Scordite.

Prices as of a few minutes ago (roughly):

Veld 135 Scor 119 Pyro 169 Plag 154 Omb 81 Kern 151 Jasp 176 Hemo 197 Hedb 195, ABCs are 266 / 287 / 353.

Personally, I don't think 150 ISK/m3 for hi-sec ore is sustainable. Not unless CCP keeps the ban hammer rolling on mining bots and keeps them out of the game. At 150 ISK/m3, a hulk pilot is only making about 15M/hr solo. If it gets much higher then that in hi-sec, then I think more and more people will start mining. Especially when ISK/hr gets up past 20-25M range. I'll be surprised to see hi-sec ores get into the 200-250 ISK/m3 range for more then a short amount of time (2 months).

Null-sec miners, OTOH, generally won't get out of bed for less then 60-70M ISK/hr, because they can make that much running anoms or blowing up belt rats. That means that null-sec ores need to be worth at least 3.5x the value of hi-sec ores (so 500-600 ISK/m3 range) instead of only being worth 2.0-2.5x (with some like Spod being garbage).

Personally, I think the right answer would be to boost the amount of minerals in the ABCs (and Spod / Gneiss / DarkO) by about 20-30%. Which would make those ores worth more on a ISK/m3 basis when compared to the high-sec ores. Or lower the m3/unit size of some of the mid-ranged ores rather then keep them at 8-16 m3/unit.

Bha,... Double post....

Edit:



- The odds that they are getting canceled bc of the "Margin trade" skill is more likely. So, that can be the first sign
of the scam, and that the "scammer " did the mistake of not using a real order at the top of the list.

I'm not really tracking on this...

I'm not really sure what a Mining Crystal bump would do when you consider the fact that there just aren't enough low end rocks to grab on to when you account for two things.

(1) Yes there are more belts in null than low sec and empire combined but there just isn't enough low end rocks to really make a big impact.
(2) You can't assume that Hulks / Multi-Boxing Fleet guys are going to jump around systems looking for Belts to settle into, the price doesnt matter when you account for the risk of the hulk. Null sec mining is a high risk event to begin with, at most you will go to a system next door but you never go to a system where you don't ahve a station or a corporate POS to deposit personal ore in or safe up when neuts show up.

That being said...

Mining Crystal Changes dont really fix a problem however the following might be options worth entertaining.

(a) Make Null Sec Belts shaped more like Empire Belts where most can be reached from a single location, then add a ton of low end rocks to them to chew on. You have more hulks opportunities in belts for PVPers to chase, and the buff would be equal to sov holding entities as well as NPC null sec space.

(b) Make Small / Med / XL changes. Don't decrease the high end composition (ABCM) but greatly increase the Low End rock composition so there's a reason to be in these belts besides a quick cherry pick. Leave the Large Grav site - working as intended. You aren't going to reposition them every 20 mintues in pursuit of low ends. But when you can pull up and sit in a site for hours and pull in what you need, when contrasting the logistics of bring it in from empire it starts making sense to grab it.

In summary, from a pro miner, if mining crystal changes are the CCP solution, if you got the isk buy the low ends now because it aint gonna get cheaper.

LESSON: Never assume someone is always going to chase the ISK without accounting for the logistics or risk.

I remember mining in Y2-ano Fountain years ago in a barge, was the early days when BOB went to delve. The main issue i see in null sec barge mining is the cycle time and when someone drops into local and you bail you loose too much ore.

Better options are always get the cycle time down. Or much better get miner barge drones for the cap indy ships so they can lurk at a pos and have some sort of beacon or roid painter to mark the target for the drones.

Either way you need to do work on making barges more effective overall not just mining ore.

Lets face it put your hands up those that have bubbled the in gate of a dead end system so they have the warp out time needed, (T3 fixed that solution) what about mining in cyno jammed system (Black ops).

There is still a lot of work to get done b4 you see the price of trit drop to 2 IMHO.