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Need advice on low sec ****star setup please =)
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Jessic Ironcross
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-03-12 20:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessic Ironcross
Hello all

I'm looking to set up my first large POS in a quiet .03 or lower system that's out of the way. It'll just be me and a friend so I know that if anybody wants to take it out they can. It's role will be to manufacture drugs, I plan on selling them and trying to make a profit.

I want to make a ****star, basically it'll be in an unused system on a rubbish moon making drugs - so hopefully it'll be unattractive.
To further make it a pointless target I want to just make it a PITA to take out.
I'm thinking a Large Caldari Tower with 11 Hardeners permanently online trying to average a 60-65% across the board resist (odds are, we probably won't be online if its attacked). This means no POS gunners.

I'm trying to keep fuel costs to a minimum to maximise profits. Will it's out of the way location and these hardeners be enough of a deterrent do you feel? Or should I also install some ECM?

If so, what and how many ECM or other modules do you feel I should install and online to keep costs to a minimum while still keeping it a generally effective deterrent?

I know nothing at all is set in stone but I have very little experience of this and therefore value your opinions a lot [:)

Many thanks in advance,

Jess

(As an aside, for those who are informed on drug manufacture, do you feel it's possible to make a profit doing this activity while buying the gass on the market Smile? If nobody is sure, we're willing to give it a try, we've done our best to research it but there isn't a wealth of info Smile
Salarc
SalCorp
#2 - 2012-03-12 20:40:11 UTC
If you don't know 100% there's profits to be had reacting from market gases. Then stop everything.
Go make a spreadsheet, find profits, then think about this again.

Having said that, I had 10 large towers up in an out of the way system.
Not a one has defenses, I've had no issues.

Take a look at your surrounding area, are there lots of pvper/pirates about? If so maybe add a little extra defense.
If all your worried about is random alliance pos bust squads, nothing you can do will stop it.
Jessic Ironcross
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-03-12 20:53:41 UTC
Salarc wrote:
If you don't know 100% there's profits to be had reacting from market gases. Then stop everything.
Go make a spreadsheet, find profits, then think about this again.

Having said that, I had 10 large towers up in an out of the way system.
Not a one has defenses, I've had no issues.

Take a look at your surrounding area, are there lots of pvper/pirates about? If so maybe add a little extra defense.
If all your worried about is random alliance pos bust squads, nothing you can do will stop it.


Haha indeed, I'm rather tired I apologise - that's when the **** it tendency appears but I wouldn't actually build it without further research.

My goal is to deter people who fancy blowing something up for fun, I'm very much aware that it can be taken out - I just want to deter opportunity griefers. Is the EHP of a large pos enough to do that? The fact that you have had little problems in similar areas is promising.
Salarc
SalCorp
#4 - 2012-03-12 21:17:33 UTC
Your fairly safe with none like I said, but if you worried again like I said find how many pvper/pirates operate in the area and plan accordingly.
If there are lots and there decently sized then I'd say put on lots of ewar plus the hards.
The hards alone normally will be more then enough to deter most people.
Jessic Ironcross
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-03-12 21:19:51 UTC
Salarc wrote:
Your fairly safe with none like I said, but if you worried again like I said find how many pvper/pirates operate in the area and plan accordingly.
If there are lots and there decently sized then I'd say put on lots of ewar plus the hards.
The hards alone normally will be more then enough to deter most people.


Thank you kindly for your advice Smile
Purehydro
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-03-13 08:15:27 UTC
Do a spreadsheet, you set up a tower after you have determined you can make a profit from it and not before.

For defenses in an out of the way corner, I'd say none except for 5 hours of stront with another 5 hours of stront in an assembly array. What happens is they shoot your tower, it goes reinforced, comes out of reinforced and gets past 50% to be restronted before they can come back.

I've had my med tower(probably not anymore now that I have written about it) for 2-3 months. I've been attacked once with dreads who ran at the mere appearance of my mighty prowler.Blink Make friends with the locals and get to know who the other POS owners are.

The worst thing about a POS with defenses is tearing them down as the owner, POS defense buys time, nothing else because if they are shooting at it they've brought enough firepower to take out the POS and it's defenses. No one likes shooting at structures so they generally need a reason to.

There are 2 types of people in LS:
1. Those looking for a fight or a gank
2. Hardcore industrialists

There's loads of quiet LS moons for you to exploit. Some might even support moon mining to pay your fuel costs. Any moon that can turn a serious profit is owned by a big bad alliance.
Mokanor Lenak
Odd Fluffy Bunnies
#7 - 2012-03-13 13:35:37 UTC
Jessic Ironcross wrote:

I'm trying to keep fuel costs to a minimum to maximise profits.


there is no longer minimum/maximum to fuel costs.
every large tower takes 40 fuel blocks an hour to run (small 10, medium 20), whether you have 100 or 0 modules online.

you can read about it here
eve.stratics.com/welcomed-pos-changes-07-nov-2011-devblog/
also note that the amount there has been changed since.
a large tower will cost about 500 to 600 million isk a month give or take the type and race.

so basically, you put what you need to menufacture, and the rest as many hardeners and ecm you can.
also one or two web and scram and a gun or two will **** off every one in a small ship coming close to check your pos.
or as sid, if its a quiet system, save your isk and don't put any defence.
Skorpynekomimi
#8 - 2012-03-13 18:33:05 UTC
You might just want to get in touch with the locals and ask nicely if you can put a PoS up. Offer them discounted drugs (their pvpers will likely be your market anyway) or just a cash payment every month you've not been blown up.

To help finance it, look into PI in the system; if you'll be paying them tax on that too, they'll be even less likely to blow up your operation. Maybe even get in touch with industrialists in any nearby highsec ice systems.

Economic PVP
Rashino Zea
State War Academy
#9 - 2012-03-16 01:03:55 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
You might just want to get in touch with the locals and ask nicely if you can put a PoS up. Offer them discounted drugs (their pvpers will likely be your market anyway) or just a cash payment every month you've not been blown up.

To help finance it, look into PI in the system; if you'll be paying them tax on that too, they'll be even less likely to blow up your operation. Maybe even get in touch with industrialists in any nearby highsec ice systems.


This is what not to do. Offering a cash payment reduces profit and invites attack if you fail to pay.

Instead, do not talk to the locals. Do not acknowledge your own presence. Move in the tower at a period of lowest activity in the area. Put the tower at a moon with no minerals. Preferably around planet that's out of Dscan range from any other (or as few as possible) celestials. Set the tower to operate for as along as possible without your babysitting. Never uncloak unless absolutely necessary, and only for short periods of time.



99% chance they wont even notice.

The only time i was ever caught, i had idle'd too long at the tower, and someone scanned me down trying to figure out where i was/what i was doing.


Operating under the radar is the way to go.


Maximus Hashur
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-03-26 03:23:22 UTC
Rashino Zea wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
You might just want to get in touch with the locals and ask nicely if you can put a PoS up. Offer them discounted drugs (their pvpers will likely be your market anyway) or just a cash payment every month you've not been blown up.

To help finance it, look into PI in the system; if you'll be paying them tax on that too, they'll be even less likely to blow up your operation. Maybe even get in touch with industrialists in any nearby highsec ice systems.


This is what not to do. Offering a cash payment reduces profit and invites attack if you fail to pay.

Instead, do not talk to the locals. Do not acknowledge your own presence. Move in the tower at a period of lowest activity in the area. Put the tower at a moon with no minerals. Preferably around planet that's out of Dscan range from any other (or as few as possible) celestials. Set the tower to operate for as along as possible without your babysitting. Never uncloak unless absolutely necessary, and only for short periods of time.



99% chance they wont even notice.

The only time i was ever caught, i had idle'd too long at the tower, and someone scanned me down trying to figure out where i was/what i was doing.


Operating under the radar is the way to go.









Can anyone comment realistically if there are moons out there left open to mine. I have been studying dotlan and have been running some null sec scouting missions but have not found an open one yet. Is it viable for me to even attempt to establish a moon mining POS out in null sec or am i kidding myself??? By my count on dotlan there has to be tens of thousands of moons out there. Not all of them can be taken can they?

Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.  Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!!
Suni Khan
#11 - 2012-03-26 16:23:42 UTC
nullsec? you are kidding yourself. they are taken by the big alliances.

Also the low-sec moons that are valuable are also taken by null-sec alliances.

there will be **** moons that arenot worth mining for them. as they wont even pay for fuel bills. these may be interesting as an added bonus ontop of your other endavours. bu dont expect to make loads of money from moon mining.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-03-26 17:02:12 UTC
[quote=Maximus Hashur


Can anyone comment realistically if there are moons out there left open to mine. I have been studying dotlan and have been running some null sec scouting missions but have not found an open one yet. Is it viable for me to even attempt to establish a moon mining POS out in null sec or am i kidding myself??? By my count on dotlan there has to be tens of thousands of moons out there. Not all of them can be taken can they?[/quote

They are out there. You can divide moons into 4 categories

1) High value (technetium, dysprosium, neodymium
2) Medium value (Platinum, mercury, Chromium, Vanadium, Caesium, etc...
3) Low value (Atmospheric Gases, Evaporite Deposits, Silicates, etc...
4) no value/barre

Generally speaking, all high value moons are taken by "big bad alliances". Medium value moons are generally held by local low-sec corporations/alliances. Low value and barren moons are a dime a dozen. This is because low-value moons are *never* profitable to mine from (unless you supplement it with other activities). Barren moons are EVERYWHERE

Medium value moons ARE available out there, but they are awfully rare

It is also important to consider the moon's location. Moons in .3 or lower systems which are adjacent to high sec and/or close to Jita are in much higher demand than a moon 20 jumps away from high sec

There are possibly one or two high value moons which are available out there - but nobody knows where those are. If they did, they would take them

Medium value moons are much more likely to be available in deep low sec - but they are also much more dangerous to maintain without a jump freighter. I would advise using Black Frog Freight.