These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

I <3 the COA
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kaeda Maxwell
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#41 - 2012-03-11 18:59:28 UTC
ISK efficiency is a pretty flawed concept anyway.

30 people blow up a 1 billion ship and 30 people get 1 billion added to their killboard efficiency...
Surely it would be more accurate if they all had 33,3 million added to their statistics? Anyway that's an entirely different debate.

But the faking of killmails is poor taste imho, like spank said no mail is no mail.

Where Wild gets the idea pirates mess with their killboards I don't know most pirate corps I know have boards that pull mails from the api and don't like CoA use internal boards that circumvent that.
Can't talk for other pirates but anything of r1fta's that dies shows up on the board no matter how embarrassing. And we sure as hell don't fake mails not even that one time a harby self destructed from under my malediction! Ugh
Kane Rizzel
NovaKane Incorporated
You've got RED on you
#42 - 2012-03-11 20:33:12 UTC
COA don't post all their losses either, must be one helluva circle jerk and patting of backs when they post a SD'd carrier and justify it by saying they want the 'whole picture of the battle' Nothing more than a joke that pretends to take itself seriously.

API your killboard, don't post fake mails and then, maybe then, the pirate community would consider for the merest moment, to take you seriously... You never know, at that moment the Kraken might stir, no longer ignoring the lame smack of a blob of pretenders, a million sushi dinners will cry out for vengeance and the COA shall get the fight it so dearly pretends to want.

[URL=http://novakaneinc.blogspot.co.uk]A Pirate's Perspective[/URL] [URL=http://community.eveonline.com/community/fansites.asp]Official EVE Online Fan Site[/URL]
Msgerbs
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-03-12 06:04:29 UTC
Crigga wrote:


Gotta love game mechanics, what do you think its there for or do you just think people randomly self-destruct for the F*uck of it

Confirming that billboards are a game mechanic as well, and that denying kb stat is exactly what CCP added self-destruct for.
Firelight Morgenstern
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-03-12 06:31:18 UTC
No lossmail should be deemed embarrassing really. The fact that these do-gooders have their own private boards where they cherry pick what is posted is laughable really. In the same context of how they hide behind their laughable coalition, fronted by the puppet lady Wild. Urgh, horrible. Most decent pvp corporations have an api pull, there is no fabrication of the facts on their boards.

You so silly Ms Wild.
Yezenia
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-03-12 15:36:40 UTC
This stuff is gold.

From a COA thread now called "Supplemental Kill Mails"

Delilah Wild wrote:
So I asked around, and here are the facts as I understand them. Please chime in with additional information or corrections.

On Wednesday night/Thursday morning Altaen was leading his usual anti-pirate roam.
The Coalition of Anti-Pirates destroys a Silent fleet.
Crigga ejects from his Thanatos to avoid an embarrassing kill mail.
Crigga then taunts the COA fleet about said kill mail.
COA fleet members make a kill mail for Crigga's carrier.
The kill mail accurately reflects the loss of Crigga's carrier.
The kill mail is posted to the COA KB, but does not appear on Battle Clinic.

Now as I say in this thread, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=918568#post918568, I think this is a creative way to make up for a gap in how kills are reported by Eve to kill boards. Essentially, pilots can self destruct ships they are about to lose to avoid a kill mail. This artificially boosts their kill to loss efficiency, as well as that of their corp or alliance. So in this sense, these seem like kill mails that supplement a flawed game mechanic in Eve.

At the same time, one can see how using supplemental kill mails is rife for abuse. While at Eve U, we identified several pirate and mercenary corps that used fake kill mails to to boost their stats, and attract recruits and customers. There is a difference between a supplemental kill mail and a fake kill mail, to be sure, but the mechanism of submitting them is still open to abuse. And there is the matter of posting our own self destructs under fire, if we are going to report the self destructs of others.

I'll stop there. Others have better first hand information on the engagement, and more developed thoughts about the propriety that I.

Still, we would like to know what you folks think about using supplemental kill mails like this. Is it a good or bad thing? Why? Take the poll and leave us a comment too!

Cheers


Tims McBold wrote:

I think it is fair to have the self-generated KB, the 'kill' is clearly tagged as a self-destruct. We aren't claiming that we killed it, we are depicting a more accurate display of how that battle unfolded. The pirates will use what ever they want to smack talk us. be it this be it anything else. If they have a problem with how we EVE, they can show up to their POCO def/POS attack and lose some more carriers.


Starbuck Mulligann wrote:

It's not really worth our attention. If Crigga were not able to self destruct his carrier in time do you know what they would do? they would shoot Crigga's carrier with 1 volley only so that it shows up as a kill on SILENT's killboard, thus balancing their loss/kill ratio. Every pirate org does this intentionally so that carrier losses do not ruin their ratio. Look at the 3 SILENT carrier losses the next day. they all have friendly fire for this reason.

There's all kinds of killboard stats manipulations that happen. Friendly fire is one example, not posting losses is another. If anyone takes killboard stats seriously enough to ***** about 'padding' they should be slapped.

P.S. Crigga self destructed his carrier. He didn't eject.


Delilah Wild wrote:

For my part, I like the idea of posting supplemental kill mails as long as we have a policy so it is not abused. I'm thinking of something that allows for postings of carriers and other ships over a billion isk if self-destructed while under fire.

Cheers
Kaeda Maxwell
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#46 - 2012-03-12 18:32:51 UTC
Quote:
For my part, I like the idea of posting supplemental kill mails as long as we have a policy so it is not abused. I'm thinking of something that allows for postings of carriers and other ships over a billion isk if self-destructed while under fire.


Priceless.

Because the amount of ships of a value below that, that can actually successfully self destruct within 2 minutes while under heavy fire is a significant number as we all know.

/sarcasm.
Mehashi 'Kho
New Eden Motion Pictures
#47 - 2012-03-12 19:16:29 UTC
What's with this attempt to justify manipulation with the term supplemental? If the mail was not generated in game It is fake. Pretty simple.

Fwiw I doubt there is a substantial pvp corp out there that hasnt lost out on a carrier km due to the enemy using game mechanics to deny them the reward of the killmail. S**t Happens. Bring enough dps to finish the job or accept you may not get the trophy you were hunting. Faking however is some pretty lame s**t.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#48 - 2012-03-12 19:48:23 UTC
Supplemental is my new power word from now on.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Szilardis
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#49 - 2012-03-12 19:59:36 UTC
You guys mind holding on a minute, I gotta go make a new bag of popcorn Roll

Off topic, we really need an emoticon that's like :eatingpopcorn:
Turgesson
Gorillaz In The Mist
#50 - 2012-03-13 00:23:30 UTC
Markius TheShed wrote:
From Criggas Bio " To the Last Ship, To the last bullet, to the last minute, "WE FIGHT"

Unless you press self destruct first of course.



That fakemail will soon fade from memory...but I'll do my best to never let this quote die. Twisted
ScooterPuff Sr
Shenanigans Mining Hub
#51 - 2012-03-13 07:07:39 UTC
Szilardis wrote:
You guys mind holding on a minute, I gotta go make a new bag of popcorn Roll

Off topic, we really need an emoticon that's like :eatingpopcorn:

i approve this message and i 2nd emotipopcorn
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-03-13 12:33:16 UTC
Isk efficiency and killboards is serious business.

I think we can all just agree that both S I L E N T and COA are equally bad and move on.

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

Sard Caid does not endorse this message.
Mr Morita
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2012-03-14 05:12:21 UTC
Szilardis wrote:
Off topic, we really need an emoticon that's like :gobblingcock:


Fixed for greater truth.

Laktos wrote:
Isk efficiency and killboards is serious business.

I think we can all just agree that both S I L E N T and COA are equally bad and move on.


NOP NOP NOP.

Mehashi 'Kho wrote:
Bring enough dps to finish the job or accept you may not get the trophy you were hunting. Faking however is some pretty lame s**t.


My point exactly. If you couldn't get the kill mail, you don't deserve to flaunt it or to manufacture kill mails saying "WE DID THIS HURRDURR". Or just get Fraps of your failed kill and laugh about it forever.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-03-16 02:25:06 UTC
COA doinitsortofrightifyoudon'tlookveryhard

I lied :o
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-03-16 09:02:32 UTC
Electus Matari and COA always use blob as replacement for skill.

Making fake killmails is just next step in their failness.

Haveing not API verified killboard is just lame and show how big pussy owner of KB is.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Not Spying
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-03-16 20:09:52 UTC
Sparkus Volundar wrote:

As can be seen from the comments on the killboard, it's openly stated that it SDed rather than died. So I don’t think that’s RP so much as completing the picture of battle.

If COA truly wanted a complete picture of battle, wouldn't you also want your losses posted? Having to rely on fake killmails and leaving off the majority of lossmails really highlights how far COA has fallen recently.

Grats Del and Sparkus!
thekiller2002us
The J8sters
#57 - 2012-03-17 10:10:12 UTC
the irony of the whole situation is that the coa + electus mitari fleet couldn't break our solo carrier tank until a neutral 23+man aaa fleet arrived on the scene and joined in the fun.- but you didn't see them whining in local or posting fake mails or crying on the forums.

At the end of the day- it took 20+ of you guys way too long to take down a solo carrier.. embarrassing.
Posting a fake kill mail on the forums hasn't done you any favors and shows the integrity of your so called anti-pirate coalition.





I'm with Brick on this one- make thouse carebearing b******s squeal..
Thansoli
Team Penguin
#58 - 2012-03-17 13:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Thansoli
thekiller2002us wrote:
the irony of the whole situation is that the coa + electus mitari fleet couldn't break our solo carrier tank until a neutral 23+man aaa fleet arrived on the scene and joined in the fun.- but you didn't see them whining in local or posting fake mails or crying on the forums

At the end of the day- it took 20+ of you guys way too long to take down a solo carrier.. embarrassing.
Posting a fake kill mail on the forums hasn't done you any favors and shows the integrity of your so called anti-pirate coalition.


Let's take a second and analyze the battle report over on eve-kill. Killboard battle reports are notoriously unreliable, because they combine kills that occurred over several hours in to the report. So we have to actually look at the data to understand what happened. The main engagement vs. your fleet lasted from 03:36 to 03:41. That's based on the timestamps of the killmails. About 2 minutes after that, Crigga's carrier self destructed. The "23+ man aaa fleet", only engaged, and destroyed, a single FEND Tempest at 04:10. (That's nearly 30 minutes later) Now, I don't know what possessed AAA to come sprinting in to Orfrold. Maybe they were coming to kill the COA fleet, maybe they heard somebody dropped a carrier on a gate. But I think we can safely assume that their presence played no part in Crigga's decision to self-destruct.

Just want to make sure we're all clear on the actual timelines.



** The opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the opinions or policy of the Lutinari Syndicate or Electus Matari.
Genoir
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-03-18 11:21:14 UTC
The clue is in the name.

Kill mail. Kill.....mail.

One more time for the hard of thinking KILL mail
Amun Khonsu
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-03-27 20:14:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Amun Khonsu
Yezenia,

All you did here is show that you have the intelligence of a toothpick.

You posted select portions of a vote discussion that lost. The vote took place because someone posted a km of a Thanatos that self destructed and ppl in COA took issue with that. The leadership recognised the sentiment that some had over the game mechanic that allowed ships to be self destructed without a km given to those who forced it to be elf destructed.

The end result is after floating the discussion and voting , COA decided it was not appropriate.

So, by airing a discussion, like most all alliances and corps do before making a decision that defines them, you didn't make COA look bad or those I involved in the discussion who abide by the policies. You just made yourself look like an idiot and a coward since you don't have the courage to post such misinformation with your main character.

Furthermore, this was in the general discussion area and not a leadership area so the vote was more a reflection of what ppl thought rather than making it COA policy.

Fight them until turmoil is no more and strike terror into their hearts. www.ross-fw.net