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Einstein was wrong?

First post
Author
The Apostle
Doomheim
#1 - 2011-09-23 03:10:15 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Speed and Eve has recently been doing the rounds in the forums...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13107&find=unread

This is of timely interest to those who care.

Quote:
PHYSICISTS have reported that sub-atomic particles called neutrinos can travel faster than light, a finding that, if verified, would be inconsistent with Einstein's theory of relativity.


Quote:
"The neutrinos arrived 60 nanoseconds earlier that the 2.3 milliseconds taken by light," Mr Ereditato said.


http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/particles-seen-to-travel-faster-than-light/story-fn5fsgyc-1226144226826

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]

Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-09-23 03:14:57 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Speed and Eve has recently been doing the rounds in the forums... This is of timely interest to those who care.

Quote:
PHYSICISTS have reported that sub-atomic particles called neutrinos can travel faster than light, a finding that, if verified, would be inconsistent with Einstein's theory of relativity.


Quote:
"The neutrinos arrived 60 nanoseconds earlier that the 2.3 milliseconds taken by light," Mr Ereditato said.


http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/particles-seen-to-travel-faster-than-light/story-fn5fsgyc-1226144226826


Yes, Einstein's real name was mr. Wong..
Also take a look in Out of Pod Section for 2 more threads on this. Smile
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#3 - 2011-09-23 03:20:02 UTC
This is exactly what I was talking about back on the old forums. Trusting what scientists say but leaving room for thought and open discussion.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-09-23 03:21:23 UTC
Well if that's true it just raises bigger questions: HOW does this particle move so fast?

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062

The Apostle
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-09-23 03:25:59 UTC
Quote:
HOW does this particle move so fast?


On the bow wave of light? Much like a drafting Nascar pushes the one in front?

I'm interested but I'm no phycisist.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]

Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
#6 - 2011-09-23 03:33:55 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Well if that's true it just raises bigger questions: HOW does this particle move so fast?


It's Minmatar-made.
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#7 - 2011-09-23 03:49:49 UTC
It does not break the speed of sound if it travels through other dimensions on its way, as the theory only relates to speed of light in flat space.

E.g. the fluctuation of neutrinos between the three different types of neutrinos could possibly involve moving through a different dimension.

Nyan

Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#8 - 2011-09-23 03:51:26 UTC
Neutrinos are bizarre particles, period. I've typed about a dozen paragraphs explaining why and then deleted them for they are way beyond the discussion level here, so let me explain it as simply as I can:

Neutrinos are always "left-handed", which only makes sense if they are mass-less. (What it means is their spin is pointing in a direction opposite their motion, which you should be able to eventually go faster than one, and therefore see it as moving backwards and hence "right-handed".) Since we never see the "right handed" neutrinos, we thought they must be going the speed of light, and therefore massless.

Neutrinos from the sun (solar neutrinos) were measured and were found to be in the wrong proportion given our knowledge of the nuclear processes happening within (which we know quite well). We then realized they were changing from one type of neutrino to another type, something ONLY possible if they have mass.

So we believe they have a very SMALL mass, but we really don't know for sure.

Now they seem to be able to move faster than light ( I think it's bunkam) which is a strange ******* cosmic coincidence that its speed is so close to that of light. I suspect we'll see that they computed the geodesic path wrong, as they neglected general relativity here, but we'll see.

Best,
AG
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#9 - 2011-09-23 03:52:26 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
It does not break the speed of sound if it travels through other dimensions on its way, as the theory only relates to speed of light in flat space.

E.g. the fluctuation of neutrinos between the three different types of neutrinos could possibly involve moving through a different dimension.


Right if there is a coupling to a 5th dimension that the neutrino could access, then it would take a different route than light and get there "early".
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#10 - 2011-09-23 03:53:59 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Well if that's true it just raises bigger questions: HOW does this particle move so fast?

It's red of course. Red ones go Fastah!

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."

mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#11 - 2011-09-23 04:51:35 UTC
If they moved faster than light it would be readily apparent when detecting supernovas.

They would have to go faster than light in only certain circumstances to fit both the astrometric observations and the recent experimental results.

In short, they almost certainly don't go faster than light, but it will be interesting to find out why the results are coming back as such.
Kehro Urgus
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
#12 - 2011-09-23 04:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kehro Urgus
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#13 - 2011-09-23 05:02:34 UTC
I believe the solving of harmonic particle theory will answer this conundrum.

The experiment which yielded the results spoken of in this thread was repeated at least 15 times in order to eliminate statistical error. Still not being satisfied with the resutls (as they should not be possible), the group of Scientists are hoping that other Scientists will (hopefully) find error in the data.

Second harmonic and sum-frequency scattering theory has already been applied to the obtained results which now requires secondary and tertiary independant confirmation.

Einstein was not wrong.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#14 - 2011-09-23 05:14:25 UTC
Headerman wrote:
Well if that's true it just raises bigger questions: HOW does this particle move so fast?


perhaps because light has to travel threw things such as atoms which could restrict is max speed i.e how gravity bends light... but neutrinos are chemically nuetral so perhaps they dont interact with atoms (unless it happens to hit the nuclii) then there is no restriction so perhaps if you take gravity out of the equation there are no restrictions on max speed...

Just wait untill next year when they make a higs bosom... imagine erecting a em field around a space ship that puts it in a buble where its not affected by gravity... it could literally slip threw space/time like a bubble in your soda can...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

The Apostle
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-09-23 05:15:06 UTC
Quote:
Einstein was not wrong.

yet?

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]

Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#16 - 2011-09-23 05:57:18 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Quote:
Einstein was not wrong.

yet?


You know....it would be frikken AWESOME if his theory was proven wrong, even if partially.
Can you imagine ? Physics as we know it would have to be re-written, for the most part.

Whatever the outcome, it's all very exciting to me. Big smile
Vyl Vit
#17 - 2011-09-23 06:28:12 UTC
I think the fact Einstein was right enough for his time, but relatively wrong (pardon the pun) about a few things is common knowledge by now. Also; General Relativity. The vernacular sure do tend to obscure matters, don't it?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

Gregor Palter
#18 - 2011-09-23 06:46:32 UTC
That's generally the conversation I have with people who read/learned about some stuff but lack the actual capacity to use that information.

They go "it's like this and that" where I'll reply with "no that's a theory, the chances of that theory actually being correct based on the tiny amount of the universe we've explored is quite small", leaves them bewildered. Really the worst thing for science is to not question what others have found. History is full of "facts" that later had to be amended to allow for this annoying thing called "reality" but somehow people who spout these "truths" and "facts" never really seemed to have learned that history lesson.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

The Apostle
Doomheim
#19 - 2011-09-23 06:53:29 UTC
Quote:
That's generally the conversation I have with people who read/learned about some stuff but lack the actual capacity to use that information.

They go "it's like this and that" where I'll reply with "no that's a theory,


Fair point, but is an apple falling on your head and you getting a bruise as a result a mere theory?

Some "theories" are indeed fact although they were theroies at the time of "discovery".

Most of the things we cannot determine by truth are bound by theory until we can prove a different theory or it indeed becomes fact per se.

Get it? I did. Just. Big smile

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]

Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2011-09-23 07:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
Headerman wrote:
Well if that's true it just raises bigger questions: HOW does this particle move so fast?


No, the question is: HOW could they see that, if there was no light!


edit: Answer: Witchcraft!

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

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