EVE General Discussion

I'll just say this and then be on my way:

My mining income in hisec is as high as 40M ISK/hr (2 Hulks, 1 Orca, 1 hauler).

My mission running income in hisec is as high as 40M ISK/hr (1 tengu, 1 dominix or oracle). I can make more ISK from LPs, but that involves throwing ISK into the LP store ISK-sink.

My incursion running income in hisec is as high as 120M ISK/hr (1 basilisk), before I start considering obtaining items from the CONCORD LP store.

So you have to understand that when it comes to deciding what to do in hisec, I resort to mining only when I'm bored to tears from mission running, and can't get into an Incursion fleet. I resort to mission running only when I can't get into an incursion fleet.

To put all the above into perspective, here is how many wall-clock hours I have to run a particular activity in order to pay for a PLEX for every account involved:

Mining: 40 hours
Missions: 20 hours
Incursions: 3 hours

Here is an ASCII bar graph contrasting the relative enjoyment of these activities:

Mining: =
Missions: ==
Incursions: ================================================

So not only are Incursions an order of magnitude more rewarding than other ISK-generation activities involving flying in space, they are orders of magnitude more entertaining. When it comes to "utility" in the economic sense, Incursions have it all: they provide the income, they provide the player-interaction utility, and the player-competition utility (when you contest other people's sites, you have fun when you win).

Now if you can't see that Incursions are the major issue impacting inflation, you have rocks in your head. Yes, null sec bounties pay out almost an order of magnitude more ISK into the system, but there are an order of magnitude more people participating in that market. Focussing on where the bulk of the ISK is coming from will result in more null sec denizens being pushed into hisec ISK-grinding to fund their play style. The focus needs to be on the activities that result in the greatest generation of ISK/hr per participant.

Turn Incursions off for two months, see what happens to the PLEX market. My prediction is that the PLEX market will die in the arse (that's a technical term meaning, "suffer a severe correction in price position"), and along with that you'll find a large number of unsubscriptions due to people leaving the game who were only playing to be part of space raiding guilds.

X-up for fleet, everybody, with your ship-types.

X: Sui-gank fit 1400mm ArtyNado, long-point, TP, TC

I certainly hope the "among other things" addresses the extreme risk vs reward imbalance that High Sec Incursions caused. Inflation is just one of the many problems your development foray into Themeparkish PvE raids has caused

Agree with this.

I ran about a dozen L4's yesterday as a background task and almost completely afk

Accept Mission
Load FOF's
Launch Drones
Set orbit at 60km
Make cup of tea
Have cigarette
Do some other stuff
Remove lint from naval
Complete Mission
Rinse and Repeat...

Mission running is too predictable and therefore not enjoyable. But I think a large number of activities in Eve suffer from this. Removing predictability, thus making ISK-earning an activity requiring thought and engagement, would surely have a deflationary effect on the Eve economy.

Compare it to high sec level 4 courier.

take 6000 M3, 7 jumps away. 14 jumps later back at the agent. 250K richer.
go to lol sec and die - decline
take 5000 M3 6 jumps away, 12 jumps later back at the agent 225K richer.
Go to LoLsec and die - Log out and wait for the 4 hr so you can decline.

Assuming you wanted to buy a blockade runner and do the LOLSec mission you are still looking at a whopping 1.2 mill an hr. Assuming you don't get station camped in LOL sec or lose your Blockade runner to an alpha beats align time. Assuming you want to do this for 80 hrs for free to pay for the blockade runner and assuming you can even go 80 hrs without losing it.

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What does this all have to do with anything? Most content in EVE is not designed to work. It's designed to rope you in to fail. Nobody does it, it becomes junk content.

Any nerfs to incursion simple insures current Incursion runners will always be wealthier than anyone who shows up in EVE after them. Any nerf to ISK faucet will cause these same people to stop spending ISK because it can't be replaced.

Nerfing EVE is why Incursions are such a boon. Most things in EVE are humongous grind whores with no end benefit. Lv. 4's and Incursions. The rest is junk content.

UNless there is another Unholy Rage, you and I both know that PLEX prices will have dropped noticably in a month, with further drop in price another 2months after that. So the challenge is kind of rigged.

you kept a list for of a few items from the market?

and you kept them for a whole 3 months?


wow.

Now keep a list of everything, and keep it for 3 years. then come back with your thoughts.


You'd be very surprised on what kind of isk-making opportunities you can miss out on when you don't think large-scale enough.


Things get cheaper, and things get more expensive. Sometimes due to changes in the game mechanics, or sometimes due to market manipulation by players. But it doesn't happen on such a small scale time-wise.


Eve isn't dying, and not everything is more expensive than it was 2 years ago.

So whose are the true numbers, then?

I do not, and never will again trust anything coming from CCP, ever, to be quite brutally forthright about it--you can thank ::18 months:: for that, and what it led to...

There is no extreme imbalance. Especially when you have nullsec alliances being run with true risk free botting. You can make more than incursions with multiple accounts with the anoms as well.

The only "Extreme Imbalance" is in your mind. Or in the fact that the way things are set up heavy favors RMT and nullbearing up. People go into incursions tired of the bullcrap of nullsec. Such as defending moon goo or RMT. Maybe after seeing if Inferno turns nullsec into a massive warzone again where bots cant thrive can we talk about incursions being imbalanced.

*Awaits* Speech about "Defending the alliance" or "We have to have mandatory CTAs or they wont show up at 4AM!1"

I'm really hard pressed to think of something that isn't more expensive now than it was then. Maybe something like named MWDs that had the loot table turned on its head and now drops like candy? But that was more than 2 years ago I think...

-Liang