EVE General Discussion

Odd, I consider all of EVE to be Player versus Player. There is, as you say, the combat aspect. But, when I have run a mission and sold the salvage and modules to the lowest buy order; some player placed that buy-order and is profiting off my laziness. That player "beat" me at the market game. Same for traders. Same for Incursion competition. Same for miners competing on the market. I've struggled, perhaps because of my limited experience, to find something in EVE where there is no competition between players. But it seems foolish to me to see PVP as pure combat as it encompasses so much more.

Not what I'm saying at all. Actually I'm saying two things.
1) The level of ship scanning going on is absolutely ridiculous. This has gone from color to crime wave.
2) Eventually the invisible hand is going to beat the eve market senseless and leave it bleeding in a ditch unless something is done to bring down transaction costs.

To this I should add point 3)
If transaction costs do not decrease hyperinflation will continue until PvP in its multiple forms becomes unsupportable. This is the market imparting the RL lesson that lawlessness is a bad thing on your skull. Only by having a special area with hardcoded protections is PvP able to exist. If there were not systemically safe areas the risk premium for goods would render PvP economically unfeasible. (And the failure of EvE along with almost every other unrestricted PvP game out there would become somebodies economics dissertation). By having a safe area with reasonably easy access from unsafe areas, PvP using items built at the safe area price becomes economically possible.

So no I don't hate PvP. I just think most PvPers would cut their own economics throats for a killmail, even if it resulted in null/WH becoming the wasteland the lowsec is.

BTW your alliances (for the Goon poster) holds spaces because other alliances did not understand risk premiums and put price controls on their markets.

I see plenty of disagreement with your assertions thus far. Heck, EVE Online standing and solid after what - 9 years - makes me think you are drawing conclusions you want instead of purely data based ones.

It's also funny how miners pretend what they do is PVE, when in fact they're PVP'ing over who can hoover up the rocks first, thereby getting the most profit. I can't tell you how many times an American high-sec miner has shown up at a belt during Prime Time just to find them all mined out by the Euros. Really, I can't.

The same goes for marketeering and Obelisks. How many people didn't get a good deal because you bought out the market to fill your stupid pinata? As if that's PVE content, or even remotely "altruistic" in a "caring" sense. Even Incursion runners are guilty of an abstract and malevolent form of PVP.

Pretty much any ISK-intensive activity that's "protected" within high-sec is PVP of a type that's much more dastardly and nefarious than destroying somebody's boat (no matter how valued) at the cost of your own. These people destroy the very value of the ISK other players in Eve earn and the cost they want to pay for this privelege is absolutely nothing.

They deserve everything they get and then some, within the context of the game.

…and the problem is that “fighting against players” in those lesser MMOs is constrained to just combat, whereas in EVE, it applies to all activities.

Guess what? He's a PvPer. In fact, he's engaged in one of the most vicious PvP arenas in the game — the market inflicts far more damage on other players than a simple blobfight does.

No. For PvP to ahppen in EVE, you need to have one player oppose another player — player versus player, PvP — and that happens everywhere. What you're describing is industry: for industry to happen in EVE, you need ships exploding, otherwise, the industry is completely pointless.

You're skipping an awful lot of steps there. Ok, let's say the ship scanning has increased. So what? Where's the crime? Has the actual criminal rate gone up? If so, so what? What's the problem?

Oh, and you do understand that the transaction costs you talk about are not really a contributing factor to inflation, right? The inflation is caused by an oversupply of money, and ships blowing up to stimulate production is just what the doctor ordered to balance that out. Having hard-coded safe areas will only mean one thing in EVE: that industry can no longer be allowed to be player-run. Combat is what keeps the economy going; without combat, the economy collapses. Not being able to disrupt industry is a very bad thing in this PvP environment since it drastically reduces the ability to do combat against your opponents.

EVE is a war economy where the broken-window fallacy is not a fallacy — it's the engine that keeps the whole thing turning.

Just because people brought the wrong ships to the fight doesn't mean it's no longer a fight — just that it's a fairly one-sided one. Even so, here as with most fights in EVE, the outcome is determined long before the first shot is fired, so it's about as much PvP as your average nullsec roam.

High sec is a limited PvP arena, because CCP decided so. Those who are fine with it, pew pew and prosper. Those who wish to unlock the full game are free to go where it's unlocked.

Suicide gank is a lesser kind of PvP, I can see the obvious economic effects (i.e. getting 10 PLEX off a badger) but as pure PvP player I don't see the intellectual / skill challenge or the feeling of victory in doing it.

Since 2009 I don't have much game time so I had to stop EvE *ships* PvP (I play the markets and industry PvP these days), so I play other games a la DAOC / Darkfall Online and similar (Guild Wars 2 for me next).
Even in those, the age of the "fair, solo brawl" are over.

MMOs have gone from an elite, super small and committed player base to a streamlined, mainstream, broad, casual playerbase. The latter don't have skill or highly effective tactics, so the cult for the blob has born.

Every game these days has blob vs 1 or blob vs blob, it's not just EvE.

Depending on the game, however, it's still possible to setup 1v1 to 6v6 (even with video shots!) just by talking with the opponents over forums / voice comms etc. In EvE it's harder and it's a reason why I don't have the time to do it here.

The blob vs blob has been understood and dealt with, by most other PvP games. EvE has no controlled "battlegrounds" or game facilities where top corps can prove themselves and get prizes / brags. The only one is the yearly tournament.

See how cool it would be if such thing was always available, maybe with an ELO-derived system? And the top corps end up being the one chosen for the official EvE tournament.

Who said small SELL orders, as you are selling you set up sell orders. And I stock up everything till there is a fair amount to be sold.

Why not just give freighters slots heck a single low slot for a damage control can't be too much to ask can it?

suicide ganking is fun