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Mad inflation

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OfBalance
Caldari State
#301 - 2012-03-12 23:45:49 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
You, Goons and all other null players are more than capable of making high sec Incursions risky. How come you don't?


:effort:
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
#302 - 2012-03-12 23:48:13 UTC
Kiss and make up Goon poster and "Kills my alt's dramiel for e-fame"

You both want the same thing, trolling lolz and thread derailment. Think of what you could achieve together.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#303 - 2012-03-12 23:50:14 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
And all ten are really terrible mate. Tell you what. I will stop making run of your terrible posting if you actually go back to the original topic here.

You, Goons and all other null players are more than capable of making high sec Incursions risky. How come you don't?


how long do you think gank-fit ships last around incursion rats? heh!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tenebrae Syrennis
Abattoir Research and Development
#304 - 2012-03-12 23:50:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tenebrae Syrennis
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Tippia wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.
You're going to have to elaborate on that one a bit.

Kile Kitmoore wrote:
Finally, NOW can we please stop the nerf Incursion threads!
Nope.
Quote:
As for the inflation, you wanted a mining buff here it is! Trit selling at 5 ISK a pop! Nice!
Inflation is not a mining buff since it doesn't mean mining is more worth-while.


Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.


[/Facepalm]

You still haven't learned, have you...

Those numbers that "someone" posted say that something on the order of 30% of all bounty income is Incursions.

If true, then how can you possibly not see this as a problem, especially as there is no commensurate ISK/resource-sink for those bounties? Please, don't insult my intelligence.

E (big, because this is all just occurring to me):

Those bounties being an all-new ISK-injection into the markets with no new potential ISK-sinks, to re-iterate. Incursion-rewards should be primarily LP-based, mission/belt/anomaly rats should drop no Tech 1/meta-zero modules--none, at all--and more desirable ships/modules/implants should be added to the LP stores with high ISK-costs. Also the exchange-rate for CONCORD LPs <---> other NPC LP stores should be nerfed--I'm thinking it should be around 2 : 1 CONCORD : Other NPC corp, though I admit I pulled that number out of my arse. Not 1 : 1, though, by any means.

That, and make hisec incursions--and level 4 missions!--much more risky. Sure you can still use your ISK 2Bn pimp-my-Mach to tear through the latter, but advanced NPC AI, omni-damage, tackling, EWAR, cap-warfare, random spawns--in other words, much closer to PvP--would mean there is a very real risk of losing it every time you hit "Accept Mission." I don't think l4 missions are too rewarding, per se, but I firmly believe that they are far too easy, given the power of most ships that do them nowadays compared to when they were newer.

No, this does NOT mean nerf the ships. This means buff the challenge/risks to those ships.Especially in hisec!

I have come to eat all your brains.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#305 - 2012-03-12 23:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
Grey Azorria wrote:
Has anyone actually considered how much of an ISK sink Dust 514 might be?

Think about it, we pay one group of dust bunnies a bunch of ISK (which they then get blown up) to go and blow up another group of dust bunnies ISK.


a) speculation at best, we have no clue about sums or numbers to begin with

b) alot of people have zero interest in paying people to do A or B, I know I personally am quite wealthy but I would not even spend a single isk on Dust, I'd much rather invest every isk I have in FiS-combat (i.e., how is this an isk sink if many, or maybe most? of us, have no interest to participate)

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#306 - 2012-03-12 23:58:53 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Misanth wrote:
AFK cloaking is an excellent counter to bots, too.


Sure if they werent AFK and reporting said bots.


Don't have to report them, just sit in local, the bots will cloak or log off. The only sad part is, bots don't get pissed off, like players do, so the griefing aspect is completely lost on them. Sad

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Zircon Dasher
#307 - 2012-03-13 00:02:31 UTC
Tenebrae Syrennis wrote:

[/Facepalm]

You still haven't learned, have you...

Those numbers that "someone" posted say that something on the order of 30% of all bounty income is Incursions.



facepalm indeed

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#308 - 2012-03-13 00:04:05 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Gogela wrote:
The people who suffer most are going to be anyone who makes money from PvE (miners or producers exempt) and new players. I feel bad for the noobs, but the rest of you are doing it to yourselves.



It's not like people have to keep doing the same thing day after day. Not like a noob has to go shoot rats and PVE, he can run off and start mining right away. Joe Noob can shoot at 25K rat, or go mine 300 ISK per unit trit ... hrm, which do you think he will choose?


I chose to steal and scam when I started, but CCP put in the jetcan aggro mechanics, and revamped the contract systems (repeatedly), introduced WTZ (so much for my bm scams, they used to be so profitable cry cry).

In fact, I took some pride into neither being forced to shoot npcs nor mine. I wonder if young players will be able to even steal much in highsec in the future, CCP have made this game so damn safe. But that's a discussion for another thread.. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#309 - 2012-03-13 00:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
CCP doesn't need to nerf Incursions. What they need to do is change the rewards from a faucet to an exchange economy. Doing so still retains Incursions, their attractiveness and stops injecting isk into the economy from them. Then CCP can address missions/bounties if they so choose.

Don't ban me, bro!
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2012-03-13 00:08:29 UTC
Tenebrae Syrennis wrote:

[/Facepalm]

You still haven't learned, have you...

Those numbers that "someone" posted say that something on the order of 30% of all bounty income is Incursions.
19% (8.6T of 45.4)
Kile Kitmoore wrote:

If true, then how can you possibly not see this as a problem, especially as there is no commensurate ISK/resource-sink for those bounties? Please, don't insult my intelligence.

Are the LP stores not being counted as a sink?
Endeavour Starfleet
#311 - 2012-03-13 00:09:30 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Misanth wrote:
AFK cloaking is an excellent counter to bots, too.


Sure if they werent AFK and reporting said bots.


Don't have to report them, just sit in local, the bots will cloak or log off. The only sad part is, bots don't get pissed off, like players do, so the griefing aspect is completely lost on them. Sad


Its called moving systems and AFK cloaking has done nothing relevant on botting. And I personally doubt you even report them because you want to pad your killboard for many. If yall actually reported it might be different.
Zircon Dasher
#312 - 2012-03-13 00:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircon Dasher
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Tenebrae Syrennis wrote:

[/Facepalm]

You still haven't learned, have you...

Those numbers that "someone" posted say that something on the order of 30% of all bounty income is Incursions.
19% (8.6T of 45.4)


Nope. Incursions do not account for 19% of bounty income either.


You ready for the real answer?

Incursions account for 0% of bounty income.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#313 - 2012-03-13 00:14:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
High Sec Miner wrote:
It's not fair that I can be suicide ganked while I'm mining in my Hulk!


Goonswarm Federation wrote:
It's not fair that high sec Incursion players are making ISK risk free!


I'm confused. How is one risk free and the other is not?


Inattentive AFK miners are a lot like incursion runners because


Marlona also seems to forget exhumers are very expensive ships designed to mine endgame minerals in null.

When miners use exhumers in high, it's as if we combat pilots would be allowed to use our capital ships to run Incursions and lv4's. I never really got why so few point this out, tbh. When Hulks were new, they were exclusively in null (sure, they cost 500m-1bil, and we were alot more poor back then). But then mining was worth the time invested as well.

I don't think miners would even care if t1 mining cruisers or retrievers died instead of Hulks - but to be honest, I somewhat feel with the miners. It's quite tragic the state of EVE mining, when you have to use an exhumer in high and the profits are still junk.

Nullsec mining needs craploads of love, and exhumers shouldn't be allowed to fly in high. Noone would whine about highsec mine ganks then either, they're just butthurt because cheap ships kill expensive ones atm. Not us gankers fault they use the wrong ship for the matter, while thinking they deserve to be AFK while doing it. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#314 - 2012-03-13 00:16:13 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Tenebrae Syrennis wrote:

[/Facepalm]

You still haven't learned, have you...

Those numbers that "someone" posted say that something on the order of 30% of all bounty income is Incursions.
19% (8.6T of 45.4)


Nope. Incursions do not account for 19% of bounty income either.


You ready for the real answer?

Incursions account for 0% of bounty income.

Was assuming they meant PvE related isk faucets from the post earlier. Though if we are sticking to what is written, yes, you are correct.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#315 - 2012-03-13 00:19:17 UTC
Sunviking wrote:
Andski wrote:
Sunviking wrote:
I would prefer not to see NPC bounties nerfed. If anything, just make NPC rats tougher to kill, so only the people with the best equipment and skills can kill them as easily as they can now.

When I see a Pith Usurper or a Core Lord Admiral, I expect it to put up a bit more of a fight Evil


Yes only a supercarrier should be able to kill deadspace rats right?


No, not at all.

Just make them a bit tougher, with a bit more EWAR like neuting etc.


I really enjoyed it today, a friend was running a Magsite with 7 Pith BS and three BC's. I went in there to help him. After he had opened five of the seven cans, I finally managed to kill the first BS. That's with a 700dps+ Tengu, who kill them in just a few volleys. Yah, I was jammed for almost ten minutes.

It was quite fun too when my corpmate faced a couple of jamming BC's and suddenly the region started to get time dilated, because of a blobfight seven jumps out. He was nonstop jammed and scrambled for an hour, he couldn't get locks in time before he was jammed again, and couldn't warp out because he was scrambled. Time dilation is awsome!

Please, up their EWAR. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#316 - 2012-03-13 00:23:17 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Andski wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
High Sec Miner wrote:
It's not fair that I can be suicide ganked while I'm mining in my Hulk!


Goonswarm Federation wrote:
It's not fair that high sec Incursion players are making ISK risk free!


I'm confused. How is one risk free and the other is not?


Inattentive AFK miners are a lot like incursion runners because


Marlona also seems to forget exhumers are very expensive ships designed to mine endgame minerals in null.

When miners use exhumers in high, it's as if we combat pilots would be allowed to use our capital ships to run Incursions and lv4's. I never really got why so few point this out, tbh. When Hulks were new, they were exclusively in null (sure, they cost 500m-1bil, and we were alot more poor back then). But then mining was worth the time invested as well.

I don't think miners would even care if t1 mining cruisers or retrievers died instead of Hulks - but to be honest, I somewhat feel with the miners. It's quite tragic the state of EVE mining, when you have to use an exhumer in high and the profits are still junk.

Nullsec mining needs craploads of love, and exhumers shouldn't be allowed to fly in high. Noone would whine about highsec mine ganks then either, they're just butthurt because cheap ships kill expensive ones atm. Not us gankers fault they use the wrong ship for the matter, while thinking they deserve to be AFK while doing it. P

Considering there is only one exhumer with a bonus to a nullsec specific mineral, how do you conclude that these were intended to remain nullsec "endgame" ships?
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#317 - 2012-03-13 00:26:28 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Misanth wrote:
AFK cloaking is an excellent counter to bots, too.


Sure if they werent AFK and reporting said bots.


Don't have to report them, just sit in local, the bots will cloak or log off. The only sad part is, bots don't get pissed off, like players do, so the griefing aspect is completely lost on them. Sad


Its called moving systems and AFK cloaking has done nothing relevant on botting. And I personally doubt you even report them because you want to pad your killboard for many. If yall actually reported it might be different.


Nah, you report them, put 5-10 alts spread across the constellation to cover most systems, then you start gank them. Usually it takes CCP 3-6 months to get rid of them, in the meantime you have a) done your duty reporting them b) repeatedly killed them c) made money off their Tengus.

If not idiots would try to ruin the cloaks, it'd be alot easier to help CCP ruin botting..

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#318 - 2012-03-13 00:31:00 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Considering there is only one exhumer with a bonus to a nullsec specific mineral, how do you conclude that these were intended to remain nullsec "endgame" ships?


Probably because miners whined they had to use t1 battleships to mine in null, and CCP figured it was about time they had an upgraded mining vessel in the line as well. Not to mention for the longest time, the Hulk was the only mining ship that could reasonably tank nullsec rats.

Plus, I may or may not have tried to use common sense too (I admit it was scary and dangerous, but worth it!).

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#319 - 2012-03-13 00:37:51 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Considering there is only one exhumer with a bonus to a nullsec specific mineral, how do you conclude that these were intended to remain nullsec "endgame" ships?


Probably because miners whined they had to use t1 battleships to mine in null, and CCP figured it was about time they had an upgraded mining vessel in the line as well. Not to mention for the longest time, the Hulk was the only mining ship that could reasonably tank nullsec rats.

Plus, I may or may not have tried to use common sense too (I admit it was scary and dangerous, but worth it!).

Given the benefits of the hulk and mackinaw and how universally they apply, I'm not sure how anyone would ever expect it to remain isolated to any particular sec band.
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#320 - 2012-03-13 00:42:00 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.


Yes, do it. 0.0 has so much more income than back in the belt-chaining days (this isn't a problem), lvl4s are easy as hell with the new ships and rigs, and obviously incursions are an isk waterfall.

Risk needs to be increased or reward needs to be lowered, and this is true for most activities in eve. Unlike most MMOs where nerfed income strictly means more grind, in Eve there are hundreds of cheaper ships that will become more viable with a stronger isk. If anything the game will be more dynamic after the forum whines wear off after a couple months.