EVE General Discussion

Once again THE CARGO IS NOT ISK!!!! The ISK has already traded hands for them & is still in circulation!!! How can I explain this through your thick skull!!! ISKies go no poof. Minerals do go poof.

what survives is irrelevant. 100% of ISK spent on cargo is preserved in the system. and additional value of insurance is injected.

YOU PAID 5 BIL FOR THOSE MODULES - AND NOW IT WAS DESTROYED! POOF!

This is a nonsensical statement. A POCO set at a 10% tax rate is sinking 0 isk out of the economy, I will admit that I honestly cannot remember what the NPC prices on POS fuels were. I get the feeling that less isk is being sunk out in taxes than was taken out with NPC purchases. Irregardless, every planet with a POCO is sinking exactly 0 isk (not counting the payment for the BPC) out of the economy. That the removal of a major isk sink.


2. Lack of new players to expand the economic base.
[citation needed]


The last year. The fact that CCP layed off 20% of the company over the issue. Seriously, while slow growth may have resumed, slow growth is slow. That's not a massive influx of players that are going to expand the economic base and bleeding out some of the inflation.

4. Decreasing ability to arbitage items between regions due to suicide ganking.
Red Frog. Problem solved. Seriously though, I run my loaded freighter from Dodixie to Jita multiple times per week w/o issue. I've pushed as much as 3Bisk in a single load, and passed without a scratch.

Red Frog is an option for people who know about Red Frog. Also have you seen there ques lately.

It costs 0.575% to move a billion isk of goods from dodixie to Jita. If you are arbitaging goods on a 3% margin that's a little bit more than 1/6th of your profit gone there. Prices will need to rise to compensate. Since Red Frog will take a day or more to complete its shipment there is a very good chance that your arbitage opportunity will disappear before your goods reach market. The answer is of course to run it down yourself.

At the same time if you put more than 700m in your freighter you are a gank target. Three percent of 700m is 21m in profits. According to Red Frogs Calculator it's a 30 minute ATK trip from Jita to Dodixie. If you had a similar opportunity on the other end you'd be making 42m and hour. That's good, but by the time you have a freighter alt/main you can probably make comparable flying missions.

Here's the kicker though, a 3% profit is a good profit for arbitage. The upshot is that the prices you pay don't get knocked down by somebody dropping a freighters worth of goods onto the market. End result multiplied over a bunch of transactions is inflation.


5. Massive cost increases in the raw resource basket due to:
a. suicide ganking of miners
[citation needed] Hulkageddon-I had some impact on mineral prices, but was likely speculative rather than a real disruption. Other Hulkageddon events have had little or no market impact.

Hulkageddon's were transitory events that lasted for a week. We are seeing a long term increase in risk requiring an increase in reward.



Building Caldari Fuel blocks currently generates 623,000 isk/hour. Moving 160,000 cubes (6 days, 18 hours build time) will require three freighter trips. It also is going to take around three freighter trips to move the stuff to processing. That's roughly that is 54 hours (40%) of profit lost to shipping fees (from Dodixie to Jita).

Of course very few people are actually putting in a weeks worth of fuel blocks. Fuel blocks are at about a 4.5% profit margin. Assuming that Red Frog is charging an appropriate risk premium, gank risk is adding around two percentage points to the cost of fuel blocks (honestly more like 1%, nobody in their right mind is hauling stuff from Jita to Dodixie). Sure not much but a one percent increase of the price of POS gas will be reflected in a markup on almost everything especially T2 mods that are being produced by invention.

I really dont know how to be any more obvious about this.

Blowing up players results in lost isk. You lost isk. Isk sink. Isk gone! TRUST ME - I HAVE A MONOCLE

Do you really think i would have amassed this much wealth and not know the difference? My shirt cost 800 million isk alone.

ITS AN ISK SINK

List of isk Faucets and Sinks (courtesy of Tippia):


Faucets:

NPC bounties
NPC buy orders
Mission rewards
Insurance payout
GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods
Character creation


Sinks:

Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax
NPC sell orders
NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance
NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties
Wardecs
Sovereignty fees
PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices)
Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads
Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits
CSPA Charges
Smuggling fines
GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement
Character deletion

Gotta make you understand.

Its still lost isk.
I paid for those modules and now they're gone.
The modules didnt change hands
My employees in highsec all mined for hours and hours to provide me with them
And all of that is now removed

WHATS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS OBVIOUS ****?
Buy a monocle maybe that'll help.

Dont tell me you're too blind to see

Last shot at it since I'm pretty sure I've been trolled...

It's lost isk to you, not the total economy.
A sink removes money from the economy never to return, rather than taking it from you and giving it to someone else.

We've explained it to you so many ways ISK does not disappear WHEN A SHIP GOES POOF!!!!
It disappeared from your hands already when you paid for the item.
You are a ignorant if you think the ISK in the system disappeared still. It is still there after the ships BLOWN UP! SHIPS ARE A MINERAL NOT A ISK SINK in this respect the isk is in someone elses hands just not yours.
I'm done trying to educate you abnout ISKs and SINKs


One interesting affect(?): this does cause ISK inflation because now the value of minerals is increased to replace your ship yet the ISK you had paid for the ship is still floating around

What? Yet again, you mean? LvL 4's are an easy target that have been nerfed repeatedly over time.

The only thing that needs adjusting there is the excessive, crap meta drops that get churned into minerals. Mining with guns is just screwing legitimate miners (non bots, if there are any around anymore). The bounties are fine.