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[Speculation] Tier-less Frigates (Tech 1)

Author
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#1 - 2012-03-12 15:11:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
As the ship balancing devblog and accompanying thread mentioned, The tier system will be removed and replaced with a role system

The first ships up on the block seem to be the Tech 1 Frigates and Destroyers.

So, it's got me wondering what sorts of changes and uses these buffed frigates will have. While top-tier frigates (Rifter, Punisher, Merlin, Incursus) and the destroyers have roles for intermediate players already, most of the other frigates do not. There are of course certain frigates that do have a strong role in PvP or PvE. I know the Vigil is extremely useful as tackle, and the Kestrel burns through L1 missions

Will we see even better entry level tackle choices with the Slasher or Atron? Will we see a significant use for the Inquisitor? Will the Griffin or Sentinel be annoying as f*ck? Will the lowest level mining frigates be re-purposed to avoid near uselessness compared to dedicated mining ships

Discuss/Troll

EDIT: Tried to post links, but it kept saying "The input may not contain HTML". Bleh.

Katrina Oniseki

Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#2 - 2012-03-12 15:14:53 UTC
Speculation on the base they will specialize from:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79996&find=unread

Specialized versions would give up portions of that base for specific capabilities.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-03-12 16:49:30 UTC
There are tech 1 frigates other than the rifter? Shocked
Skorpynekomimi
#4 - 2012-03-12 17:47:22 UTC
I'd love to see a use for the Slasher other than with newbs saving up for a bigger ship. Or for a Burst other than disposa-cyno, newbie mining, or tripping rat spawns in that one mission.

I dislike the idea of a one-size-fits-all frigate, though. Moar flavour plz.

Economic PVP

Kid Chaos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-12 19:49:45 UTC
Personally I've always liked the look and feel of the Executioner, it's just not good. It's a super speedy laser ship with a bonus to damage. Theoretically that means that it will fill the same role as a Rifter, except that it will have worse tracking on a more cap intensive weapon system.

The upside is that Scorch S combined with that kind of speed could get really, really fun. As a fan of laser ships in general, I'm am VERY hopeful about the Executioner and Omen being improved to provide laser platforms prior to the Harbinger.


I am also of the opinion that one of the T1 Gallente frigates should have all but 1 of the highslots removed, and become a 20m^3 drone capacity, trainer drone boat with a 5% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per level.


Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#6 - 2012-03-12 20:28:17 UTC
Artemis Ahab wrote:
There are tech 1 frigates other than the rifter? Shocked

This why they're being rebalanced.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#7 - 2012-03-12 20:36:00 UTC
It should be pretty simple, most of the frigates have pretty defined roles already. Except for minmatar, which has the role of "Rifter" and "not Rifter."

Remember there's really only 3 combat frigates per race, plus ewar and mning, so it's not that complex. For example:

Amarr:
Punisher: Tank
Inquisitor: Gank
Executioner: Tackle

Gallente:
Tristan: Tank
Incursus: Gank
Atron: Tackle
note that tristan and incursus could reasonably be swapped, they are not that clear defined as amarr ships are right now, but I think Incursus for gank because it matches up with the gallente blaster focus.

Caldari:
Merlin: Tank
Kestrel: Gank
Condor: Tackle

Minnie:
Rifter: Tank
Breacher: Gank
Slasher: Tackle

I'm really hoping they keep it that simple... trying to do things like Tristan=multiple weapon synthethis gank platform and Incursus=blaster gank platform will just end up wonky. Like what they have now.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#8 - 2012-03-12 21:16:15 UTC
What role does "tank" have in frigate class ships?

Each race should have one ship that is straightforward to use, whether for new pilots or more experienced ones. The model here is the current Rifter. This ship class should have two useful bonuses to that race's turret weapons system and a balanced slot layout. Other ships in this class should be the Executioner, Condor, and Atron. Obviously, this should involve changing bonuses a bit to make them more useful.

Then, each race gets a ship that utilizes missiles. The model here is the Kestrel. Other ships in this class are the Breacher and Inquisitor. For Gallente, the Tristan becomes a missile ship. Notably, all these ships turn into stealth bombers at the T2 level. This class gets extra high slots to fill with launchers and relatively few mid slots (never less than two, however). Each ship gets a racial damage bonus and a ROF bonus.

Then each race gets a ship that does racial e-war. Mid slots should be plentiful in this class. The model is the Griffin. Other ships in this class are the Crucifier, Maulus, and Vigil.

Then each race gets a prober. Ships in this class are the Magnate, Heron, Imicus, Probe

Then each race gets a mining ship, with a secondary role of frigate class logistics ship. Thus, the same hull can be useful to a brand new miner looking to get into the game, while having a relevance to a more experienced pilot as well. Tormentor, Bantam, Navitas, Burst.

The final ship for each race offers flexibility in that race's style. Flexibility, of course, is CCP's trademarked way of saying "split weapons system." Gallente and Amarr get turret and drone damage bonuses. Caldari and Minmatar get turret and missile damage bonuses. Ships in this class are the Incursus, Slasher, Merlin, and Punisher. This class is also faster and easier to fit than the other classes - they make the best tacklers for lower skilled players. Once a player trains the necessary skills, they offer the same damage potential as the more straightforward combat ships.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-03-12 23:32:40 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:


Inquisitor: Gank

Kestrel: Gank

Breacher: Gank


I'm sensing a pattern here, and not a particularly good one imo.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#10 - 2012-03-12 23:45:18 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
What role does "tank" have in frigate class ships?


It should be obvious if you understand frigates. It just about where the emphasis goes and what the bonuses and fitting space will be like. Punisher or Merlin for example. Are they worthless? No. Are they pain trains? Also no. And modified for racial style; rifter is more likely to be an all around combat frigate, Puni is more likely to be a brick that fights by attrition. And don't say that Rifter is not tanky now with MSE or triple trimark fits being possible.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-12 23:49:46 UTC
Artemis Ahab wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:


Inquisitor: Gank

Kestrel: Gank

Breacher: Gank


I'm sensing a pattern here, and not a particularly good one imo.


Oh I get it, they're all launcher platforms.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-03-12 23:52:12 UTC
Use the system CCP announced instead to class them
Combat ships - Damage and tank
Attack vessels - Damage and mobility
Bombardment ships - Long range (missiles only?)
Support vessels - EWAR and Logi
Industrial ships - Mining & transport
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-03-13 00:21:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalha Saldana
Amarr
Crucifier - Support vessel
Executioner - Attack Vessel
Inquisitor - Bombardment ship
Magnate - Probing ship
Punisher - Combat Ship
Tormentor - Industrial

Caldari
Bantam - Industrial
Condor - Bombardment ship
Griffin - Support vessel
Heron - Probing ship
Kestrel - Combat ship
Merlin - Attack vessel

Gallente
Atron - Attack vessel
Imicus - Probing ship
Incursus - Combat ship
Maulus - Support vessel
Navitas - Industrial
Tristan - Bombardment?

Minmatar
Breacher - Bombardment ship
Burst - Industrial
Probe - Probing ship
Rifter - Combat ship
Slasher - Attack vessel
Vigil - Support vessel
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-03-13 04:34:57 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:

Probe - Probing ship



Har
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#15 - 2012-03-13 05:25:03 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:

Caldari
Bantam - Industrial
Condor - Attack vessel
Griffin - Support vessel
Heron - Probing ship
Kestrel - Bombardment ship
Merlin - Combat vessel


Fixed how I think it should be.


Katrina Oniseki

Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#16 - 2012-03-13 06:03:16 UTC
Now what specs each of them needs?

I always believed inties needed one extra medium slot for sensor boosters/more tackle.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#17 - 2012-03-13 08:29:54 UTC
Kid Chaos wrote:
I am also of the opinion that one of the T1 Gallente frigates should have all but 1 of the highslots removed, and become a 20m^3 drone capacity, trainer drone boat with a 5% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per level.


The drone trainer frigate only has two highslots as it is, sacrificing one of those for 5m3 of dronebay and finding something else to be the Astrometrics frigate seems somewhat convoluted and pointless...
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2012-03-13 09:07:38 UTC
Id like to se a frig/dessy sized logi ship. Get some market for those c type small rr modules out there. Not to mention opening up a whole world of fun doing L3/4s with a gang of T1 frigs like its a miniature incusion fleet.

Something like 4h 3m 2l
for three Rr a cap xfer in highs A capboost battery and charger in mids and two lows for either a plate dc local rep or more cap relays.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-03-13 11:19:04 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:

Caldari
Bantam - Industrial
Condor - Attack vessel
Griffin - Support vessel
Heron - Probing ship
Kestrel - Bombardment ship
Merlin - Combat vessel


Fixed how I think it should be.


Hmm that might be but the condor have a range bonus which makes it the only one of these with the ability to be a bombardment ship. The Kestrel is kinda tanky for a frig so it matches the Combat ships description. Tho all the other bombardment ships are also the races stealth bomber so maybe the Kestrel will be it too. Its all up to ccp becaue these slots and bonuses will change.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-03-13 11:20:24 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
Id like to se a frig/dessy sized logi ship. Get some market for those c type small rr modules out there. Not to mention opening up a whole world of fun doing L3/4s with a gang of T1 frigs like its a miniature incusion fleet.

Something like 4h 3m 2l
for three Rr a cap xfer in highs A capboost battery and charger in mids and two lows for either a plate dc local rep or more cap relays.


Nah a logi frigate should be a T2 ship that is actually able to tank at the same time. Maybe launch new frigates and the t1s can be logi too but a bit bad :P
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