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Running sites in WH's
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Richest Mofo
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-03-08 23:02:51 UTC
What would be the best wormhole I could run with two accounts? Could I run c4 sites if I had a pair of really good faction fit local rep tengu's? Or am I better off in a c3? I'm looking to strike out on my own and setup in a wh.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-03-08 23:15:29 UTC
Richest Mofo wrote:
What would be the best wormhole I could run with two accounts? Could I run c4 sites if I had a pair of really good faction fit local rep tengu's? Or am I better off in a c3? I'm looking to strike out on my own and setup in a wh.


A decent tengu can solo all the PvE that a C4 can throw at it, and much of what a C5 offers. Having said that I could not recommend a w-space beginner go jump into C4 or C5 systems, just as I cannot recommend a solo tengu as the way to efficiently work C4s or C5s.

Living in w-space and making a profit from it is a helluvalot more than just having the tank / DPS to kill the sleepers in the system. If you only have two toons to bring to the party then I'd suggest starting with a C2, or mebbe a c3 if you're feeling uber-adventurous.

Even if you have more toons starting with a c2 or c3 may also be wise, just to start getting the hang of how stuff goes down in w-space.

I have lived, solo, in w-space for quite a while now. I started in C2 where I could only clear some sites, and those with difficulty, in my maelstrom / hurricane fleet. Once I felt I had a vague grasp on how stuff works I moved to a C3, then a C4, and now a C5. I am currently having serious second thoughts on the C5 front, and my C4 experience was that I make much more isk much more easily in a C3.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Richest Mofo
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-03-08 23:23:22 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Richest Mofo wrote:
What would be the best wormhole I could run with two accounts? Could I run c4 sites if I had a pair of really good faction fit local rep tengu's? Or am I better off in a c3? I'm looking to strike out on my own and setup in a wh.


A decent tengu can solo all the PvE that a C4 can throw at it, and much of what a C5 offers. Having said that I could not recommend a w-space beginner go jump into C4 or C5 systems, just as I cannot recommend a solo tengu as the way to efficiently work C4s or C5s.

Living in w-space and making a profit from it is a helluvalot more than just having the tank / DPS to kill the sleepers in the system. If you only have two toons to bring to the party then I'd suggest starting with a C2, or mebbe a c3 if you're feeling uber-adventurous.

Even if you have more toons starting with a c2 or c3 may also be wise, just to start getting the hang of how stuff goes down in w-space.

I have lived, solo, in w-space for quite a while now. I started in C2 where I could only clear some sites, and those with difficulty, in my maelstrom / hurricane fleet. Once I felt I had a vague grasp on how stuff works I moved to a C3, then a C4, and now a C5. I am currently having serious second thoughts on the C5 front, and my C4 experience was that I make much more isk much more easily in a C3.


thanks for the reply. I'm actually not a total beginner to wh stuff. I'm currently actually in a c5 corp, that runs full escalation site ops. I've also been in a c1 and c2. They were far too easy for just even 1 tengu. I'm trying to maximize my income in an efficient way with two tengu's. I don't have much experience with the c4's, which is why I asked. I know 2 tengu's can do the c3's. I'm not sure I agree that one tengu can solo c5 content, even if it could it would take too long to dps the sleepers down.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2012-03-08 23:50:16 UTC
LOL, I'm not after agreement just stating what is. A tengu absolutely can solo C5s ... I do it ... but like i said it's not something I'd recommend, and being solo in a tengu you do not have to worry about cap escalations.

if isk is your main driver then I'd bigtime recommend either residential C3, or somewhere where you can raid C3s. Two tengu no probs in C3s, and fine for C4s ... but not superquick in C4 sites.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Domin Ique
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#5 - 2012-03-09 17:15:30 UTC
I call total BS on anybody saying they can solo an anom in a C5. The nuets alone would drain any ships cap to zero and keep it there. Not to mention the incoming damage that requires at least 2 logis or a carrier to mitigate. And finally there is no way a solo ship can break the rr of the sleeper Warden battleships.

But like the others have said, for solo work, stick to a c3 for optimal pay vs. time investment.
Gajana
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-03-09 17:35:25 UTC
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Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-03-10 01:15:43 UTC
Domin Ique wrote:
I call total BS on anybody saying they can solo an anom in a C5. The nuets alone would drain any ships cap to zero and keep it there. Not to mention the incoming damage that requires at least 2 logis or a carrier to mitigate. And finally there is no way a solo ship can break the rr of the sleeper Warden battleships.



It's like lovers.

If all ya worried about is the size of your epeen, ya haven't got a clue how to properly use what ya do have.

call all the BS ya want. Certainly ya can't solo them with epeen mentality ... but I am not so encumbered :-)


perhaps you should try it, like I do, before hypothesising what others might or might not be able to do.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad
#8 - 2012-03-10 03:01:22 UTC
Id guess the tengu would have to be stupidly overtanked and hover on the 100km mark with near perfect skills. AND itd have to be a site that doesnt have RR ships. AND youd most likely make a better profit running l4s than c5... Now a solo tengu in c3s...easy 150m/hr. Hell even a drake could do it and make 60(or more havnt tried)
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-03-10 03:31:27 UTC
Unimaginative Guy wrote:
Id guess the tengu would have to be stupidly overtanked and hover on the 100km mark with near perfect skills. AND itd have to be a site that doesnt have RR ships. AND youd most likely make a better profit running l4s than c5... Now a solo tengu in c3s...easy 150m/hr. Hell even a drake could do it and make 60(or more havnt tried)


Lots of ppl postulating mebbes and try tell those that actually do it why they can't, or why it's not good or enuff profit, or whatevers.
Solo tengu kills the repper spawns, altho with the 6 repper frigs the first one is hard to crack.

Doesn't need to be stupidly overtanked. Like i said 6HML and MSB fit is fine. I doubt an LSB fit would cope.

Skills sure help and, yes, I am better than near perfect skilled for tengu.

Certainly not something I'd recommend, as i said many times, but it is eminently doable. Course it's not gonna appeal to the epeen ppl as it requires subtlety and skill P

If all ya want is solo isk-flow then C3's prolly the peak.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#10 - 2012-03-10 11:22:49 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
Unimaginative Guy wrote:
Id guess the tengu would have to be stupidly overtanked and hover on the 100km mark with near perfect skills. AND itd have to be a site that doesnt have RR ships. AND youd most likely make a better profit running l4s than c5... Now a solo tengu in c3s...easy 150m/hr. Hell even a drake could do it and make 60(or more havnt tried)


Lots of ppl postulating mebbes and try tell those that actually do it why they can't, or why it's not good or enuff profit, or whatevers.
Solo tengu kills the repper spawns, altho with the 6 repper frigs the first one is hard to crack.

Doesn't need to be stupidly overtanked. Like i said 6HML and MSB fit is fine. I doubt an LSB fit would cope.

Skills sure help and, yes, I am better than near perfect skilled for tengu.

Certainly not something I'd recommend, as i said many times, but it is eminently doable. Course it's not gonna appeal to the epeen ppl as it requires subtlety and skill P

If all ya want is solo isk-flow then C3's prolly the peak.


You must be doing something that I can learn from then.

Some of my characters live in a C4 and the neuts pretty much preclude running anomolies with an active tanked T3. You end up getting in the situation where you have to warp in... shoot something for 30 seconds until you're capped out and warp out again...... It's far from fun and when you think that some of the rats scram, it's far from safe too.

So... is there something about your fitting we can learn from that allows you to hold your ground with zero cap or are you doing something like kiting neuting ships at extreme range and drawing the rest out to range with you to kill first....

I'm very interested in knowing how you approach this.

T-
Alec Freeman
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-11 15:16:30 UTC
I've seen it done with a 100mn AB tengu with a pithum medium shield booster. It is soloable but the amount of time it takes your better off soloing in C3's. I also wouldn't recommend dual boxing as there is a lot if fly ing involved. Also seen a site done with a full passive rattler but again it took so long it wasn't worth it. Even with fighter support.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-03-11 19:02:32 UTC
Richest Mofo wrote:
What would be the best wormhole I could run with two accounts? Could I run c4 sites if I had a pair of really good faction fit local rep tengu's? Or am I better off in a c3? I'm looking to strike out on my own and setup in a wh.


2 RR non-faction Tengu's can run all but Information Sanctums and radar/mag.

As for the Tengu soloing C4 anoms. Yes, a few. Can it run everything? Highly doubtful as I've not been motivated to try fitting such an expensive ship to test it out. Why run a tengu solo that costs more than 2 in a RR fleet? If you see a solo tengu in a c4 go get something to kill it. The drops alone are worth the effort.

As for running a C5 solo...youtube or GTFO.

[Tengu, non-faction-rr]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Capacitor Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Photon Scattering Field II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

This fit will work find though your range will be about 75km. Faction fit it with dissonic sequencer and you can start shooting at 100km.

Don't ban me, bro!
drdxie
#13 - 2012-03-11 23:06:26 UTC
I have lived in both a C3 and a C4. The best for using 2 ships will be a C3. Don't need anything fancy, 2 tengu's are great but 2 drakes can do it. This will be more profitable than 2 ships/accounts in a C4.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2012-03-12 01:09:25 UTC
drdxie wrote:
I have lived in both a C3 and a C4. The best for using 2 ships will be a C3. Don't need anything fancy, 2 tengu's are great but 2 drakes can do it. This will be more profitable than 2 ships/accounts in a C4.


I agree entirely with drdxie. Solo or very-small-group w-space cashflow peaks with C3s. C4s and c5s might bring in more isk per site but their spawn rate (+/- completion rates) makes the isk-per-average-time not as good.


Mr Kidd wrote:

As for running a C5 solo...youtube or GTFO.


LOL. Ummmm, no ... on both counts.

Your lack of imagination and disbelief is not gonna change the fact that C5s can be completed solo in a tengu. I accept that that was the conventional wisdom when I started asking around, and was the reason i spent so much time in sisi before I moved into my C5. But conventional wisdom often only extends as far as the imagination and resourcefulness of the 'conventional' folk who dish it out.

No doubt others will pop their thinking hats on and give it a try, and over time they'll filter onto the forums saying "hey yes, it's entirely do-able" but in the meantime you are welcome to wallow in your conventional wisdoms.

For those who are interested in giving it a go, I'm not claiming it's likely to be economical for ya ... but it can be done, and without a huge amount of hassle, but you'll get way better isk-per-week from quickly clearing c3 sites.

My C5 ship is a 6HML MSB tengu, but not-at-all a budget version. A T2 MSB fit tengu cannot tank the nastier spawns, and a 5HML LSB fit cannot kill those awful little repper frigs.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Bernie Nator
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#15 - 2012-03-12 06:10:00 UTC
It IS entirely possible to run c5s solo. It's not something done often, but you can do it. Personally, I'd bring friends so we can muscle our way through the sites and maximize isk for the sites, but if you don't want to play that way, you don't have to. Eve is meant to be played however you want to play it. Don't go around telling people they HAVE to do it this way or that way. Learn how to best use your time and skills and eve and you'll be fine.
Sidrun
Life sucks then you die Ltd.
#16 - 2012-03-12 18:55:38 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
drdxie wrote:
I have lived in both a C3 and a C4. The best for using 2 ships will be a C3. Don't need anything fancy, 2 tengu's are great but 2 drakes can do it. This will be more profitable than 2 ships/accounts in a C4.


I agree entirely with drdxie. Solo or very-small-group w-space cashflow peaks with C3s. C4s and c5s might bring in more isk per site but their spawn rate (+/- completion rates) makes the isk-per-average-time not as good.


Mr Kidd wrote:

As for running a C5 solo...youtube or GTFO.


LOL. Ummmm, no ... on both counts.

Your lack of imagination and disbelief is not gonna change the fact that C5s can be completed solo in a tengu. I accept that that was the conventional wisdom when I started asking around, and was the reason i spent so much time in sisi before I moved into my C5. But conventional wisdom often only extends as far as the imagination and resourcefulness of the 'conventional' folk who dish it out.

No doubt others will pop their thinking hats on and give it a try, and over time they'll filter onto the forums saying "hey yes, it's entirely do-able" but in the meantime you are welcome to wallow in your conventional wisdoms.

For those who are interested in giving it a go, I'm not claiming it's likely to be economical for ya ... but it can be done, and without a huge amount of hassle, but you'll get way better isk-per-week from quickly clearing c3 sites.

My C5 ship is a 6HML MSB tengu, but not-at-all a budget version. A T2 MSB fit tengu cannot tank the nastier spawns, and a 5HML LSB fit cannot kill those awful little repper frigs.



I'm curious about your setup. Is MSB medium shield booster? How do you deal with the hellacious neuting, webbing, and scramming. Seems like once you get on grid, you're either finishing the site, or losing your ship. Also, when you say solo, are you talking about solo: one ship, or solo: one person, multiple accounts?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-03-12 19:31:50 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Richest Mofo wrote:
What would be the best wormhole I could run with two accounts? Could I run c4 sites if I had a pair of really good faction fit local rep tengu's? Or am I better off in a c3? I'm looking to strike out on my own and setup in a wh.


2 RR non-faction Tengu's can run all but Information Sanctums and radar/mag.

As for the Tengu soloing C4 anoms. Yes, a few. Can it run everything? Highly doubtful as I've not been motivated to try fitting such an expensive ship to test it out. Why run a tengu solo that costs more than 2 in a RR fleet? If you see a solo tengu in a c4 go get something to kill it. The drops alone are worth the effort.

As for running a C5 solo...youtube or GTFO.

[Tengu, non-faction-rr]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Capacitor Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Photon Scattering Field II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

This fit will work find though your range will be about 75km. Faction fit it with dissonic sequencer and you can start shooting at 100km.



Im curious about one thing. I've always figured RR setups are really designed best for groups of 3 or more, as you can get 2 reps on the third taking damage. But unless the RR is more efficient than the local tank how is a 2 tengu RR setup better?

I'm guessing as you can run a large shield transporter vs a medium shield booster?
Sidrun
Life sucks then you die Ltd.
#18 - 2012-03-12 21:33:20 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Richest Mofo wrote:
What would be the best wormhole I could run with two accounts? Could I run c4 sites if I had a pair of really good faction fit local rep tengu's? Or am I better off in a c3? I'm looking to strike out on my own and setup in a wh.


2 RR non-faction Tengu's can run all but Information Sanctums and radar/mag.

As for the Tengu soloing C4 anoms. Yes, a few. Can it run everything? Highly doubtful as I've not been motivated to try fitting such an expensive ship to test it out. Why run a tengu solo that costs more than 2 in a RR fleet? If you see a solo tengu in a c4 go get something to kill it. The drops alone are worth the effort.

As for running a C5 solo...youtube or GTFO.

[Tengu, non-faction-rr]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Capacitor Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Photon Scattering Field II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Invulnerability Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Electronics - CPU Efficiency Gate
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers

This fit will work find though your range will be about 75km. Faction fit it with dissonic sequencer and you can start shooting at 100km.



Im curious about one thing. I've always figured RR setups are really designed best for groups of 3 or more, as you can get 2 reps on the third taking damage. But unless the RR is more efficient than the local tank how is a 2 tengu RR setup better?

I'm guessing as you can run a large shield transporter vs a medium shield booster?


I think it might have more to do with using a high slot compared to a medium slot. When comparing the meta 4 varieties of the large remote shield booster, and the medium shield booster, they are about equal with regards to cap efficiency per cycle of boost. Upgrade the shield booster to a large, and it still has same cap efficiency, but does less per cycle then the remote repper, and takes up a mid slot that could be used for even more tank. So if your in a team of two, it definitely appears to be better to use the extra high slot, if your setup has it, to use the RR.
drdxie
#19 - 2012-03-12 23:27:46 UTC
Lots of re-quotes and questions, so not sure who the questions are aimed for. I have found it is better/safer when running C4 anom's to have 3 RR tengu's. The reason for this is that the rats will shoot 1 ship and neut the other, so you need to be VERY careful how you manage the RR, and trust me, it comes close to the wire some times, 3 x BS neuting you from 65 Km away will drain your cap very quickly. Also you want to fit the sub system that gives you more range, trying to approach the rats while one of you is webbed, is a pain in the butt.

When I mentioned solo, I mean 1 ship. Dual boxing and 2 separate people could be considered the same I guess, so essentially 2 ships. The neuting in the C3 is not that bad, for running anoms all you need is a T2 fit tengu with 450 dps omni tank, I used to be fine with somewhere between 40%-50% cap stability. This for doing it solo, ie 1 ship. This is for the anom's, the radar's and mag's need more tank, but still doable.
I am at work and do not have my fits, but if I remember, I will post them..

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-03-13 01:24:40 UTC
Soloing C5s in a tengu is possible, you just kite the sleepers out of neut/web range.
That said, it's a total waste of time since it takes forever.

If youre after best isk for 2 accounts, C4s are probably the best idea.
That said, youre never going to make more isk with 2 accounts than you can running cap escalations with a few people.

There is no Bob.

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