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Mad inflation

First post First post
Author
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-03-12 14:21:43 UTC
Well... carebears whined and whined. And they finally were given what they wanted - Incursions.

Now that you can make more isk in highsec incursions then 0.0 sanctum/havens and plexing... What did you think was going to happen?

And there are still carebears who want highsec lvl5's. Though with the ammount of isk you can make in incursions, Lvl5's are obsolete

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#22 - 2012-03-12 14:25:16 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
And there are still carebears who want highsec lvl5's. Though with the ammount of isk you can make in incursions, Lvl5's are obsolete

L5s aren't nearly as bad since they're mostly LP-based, with a healthy helping of tags that further feeds the LP spendings of other players.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2012-03-12 14:35:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
And there are still carebears who want highsec lvl5's. Though with the ammount of isk you can make in incursions, Lvl5's are obsolete

L5s aren't nearly as bad since they're mostly LP-based, with a healthy helping of tags that further feeds the LP spendings of other players.


Incursions can generate between 70 and 130 mil an hour. Not including the Concord LP... Incursions easily outperform any other form of PvE in the game, including Wormholes. My corp just shut down 2 of its wormholes specifically in favor of Incursions.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Cambarus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-03-12 14:43:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Terminal Insanity wrote:
And there are still carebears who want highsec lvl5's. Though with the ammount of isk you can make in incursions, Lvl5's are obsolete

L5s aren't nearly as bad since they're mostly LP-based, with a healthy helping of tags that further feeds the LP spendings of other players.
Very true, also, if you can't match incursion income running level 5s, you're not running level 5s very well.

The biggest problem with incursion payouts as they are (and no, it hasn't obsoleted everything else in the game, nor can it simply because of the fact that there are a very finite number of sites that can be run in 1 system, more than 60-70 in a system and you're dropping sites faster than they can spawn) is that the LP market is absolutely ****. In their attempt to turn LP stores into isk sinks, CCP set a minimum price on everything in them, and by making tags so much harder to get than LP, and required for so many of the mods in their stores, they end up in a place where a massive part of the income from missions (as well as what they could have potentially shifted incursions towards to lower the impact on inflation) is worthless.

A few years ago someone who knew what they were doing could blitz missions and pull 100mil/hour in highsec running lvl 4s, but a large part of that was LP. With the LP/tag imbalance being as bad as it is, this is no longer possible, and you'd be lucky to pull 60-70, which is a pity because the easiest way to fix the inflation problem in incursions would be to shift more of the reward to LPs and add more rewards, but, looking at what's there now, the artificial floor on the prices is set too high for there to be much demand for the rewards currently there, and the LP is mostly useless.


Also vanguards need a nerf, assaults need a notable buff and HQs need a slight buff.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2012-03-12 14:48:12 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
Very true, also, if you can't match incursion income running level 5s, you're not running level 5s very well.


If you can run lvl5's 'very well' then you have about 30-40mil SP and dualboxing.

Incursions have a much, much lower entry level requirement. Just being able to fly a Guardian is usually enough.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#26 - 2012-03-12 14:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Incursions can generate between 70 and 130 mil an hour. Not including the Concord LP... Incursions easily outperform any other form of PvE in the game, including Wormholes. My corp just shut down 2 of its wormholes specifically in favor of Incursions.

Yes, I meant “not nearly as bad“ in the sense that L5s, while high-paying, didn't inject all that much ISK into an already ISK-rich economy. In fact, L5s were probably decent net ISK sinks, all told, back when the LP market cycle was in working order.

I didn't mean it in the sense of “not nearly as bad [as you say] for earning money”. You're probably quite right in saying that they've lost ground to incursions, since there are some distinct similarities, and this just further highlights the problems incursions cause.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#27 - 2012-03-12 14:52:14 UTC
Garak Jakobs wrote:
There's nothing wrong with Incursions. The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part.


So your solution to the problem of a gushing isk faucet is to have more people sucking at that faucet?

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#28 - 2012-03-12 15:27:11 UTC
Best way to deal with this is to continue sitting in null running your bots full time while keeping everyone focused on incursions.

Hold on...y'all are already doing that.

Carry on.

Mr Epeen Cool
Adunh Slavy
#29 - 2012-03-12 15:42:24 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
dust is gonna be the biggest isk sink ever

stock up on isk if possible :P



Hopefully soon we will know if this is going to be the case or not. This point was brought up during the Jita Riots by players, but with out any information from CCP we could never draw any conclusions.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#30 - 2012-03-12 15:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
"Inflation!"

"Why you keep using that word... I do not think it meaans what you think it means."

Look, inflation hurts only a few classes of people: Old People, Children, people on some types of welfare or fixed income, and the poor.

What do they have in common? Unemployment.

You have a job in EvE... we all do. Inflation is a non-factor because everyone (but people who only play NPCs and f-em anyway) will see their income go up proportionally with the inflation of the currency. It's totally a non-issue!

Edit:
You know why you can't speak about the EvE economy in normal economic terms? On reason is there isn't support for the kind of high leverage speculation we have IRL. Sure you can buy up tons of trit expecting it to go up, and that is a type of speculation... but it's not the same. I can't, for instance, buy 5.5 ISK trit options contracts at 0.4 ISK a pop. If we were allowed to do options trading or could have real margin accounts than we would see the wild market fluctuations we see in commodities like oil IRL. In this sense the EvE economy can only break so much. Inflation in EvE is simply a factor of EvE population. The only way to recess or depress the economy is for fewer people to play (this would actually cause hyper-inflation initially), ( <-- this actually depends on what people do with the ISK before they leave. I suppose it's possible they give all their ISK away, in which case you might end up with a bunch of super-rich people which could cause prices to get really out of controll and all over the board ex. 20 mil ISK ravens because everyone can afford a BPO and the demand is anemic, 40 billion ISK jump freighters because no one takes the time to build them) or for CCP to introduce more ISK sinks.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2012-03-12 15:48:00 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Best way to deal with this is to continue sitting in null running your bots full time while keeping everyone focused on incursions.

Hold on...y'all are already doing that.

Carry on.

Mr Epeen Cool


http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9133

look who's wrong!!!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#32 - 2012-03-12 16:08:05 UTC
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.
highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2012-03-12 16:09:43 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
dust is gonna be the biggest isk sink ever

stock up on isk if possible :P




Yea, Incursions are the faucet and Dust will be the drain...

FC, what do?

highonpop
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2012-03-12 16:10:38 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.



or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow...

Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout...


Or tell the Sansha to go home...

FC, what do?

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2012-03-12 16:11:59 UTC
highonpop wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.



or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow...

Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout...


Or tell the Sansha to go home...


Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-03-12 16:16:22 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.


Decrease null sec bounties by 10%, low sec by 20% and high sec by 50%.

IB4 high sec tears.
Zircon Dasher
#37 - 2012-03-12 16:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircon Dasher
Fun Facts:

In the month of Feb:


~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts

~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses
~32T in NPC bounty


So of the combined Incursion/Missions/Ratting/etc ISK faucet

~81% comes from non-Incursion activity


EDIT: Beaten. Damn you Soundwave!

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.

knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2012-03-12 16:19:25 UTC
Garak Jakobs wrote:
There's nothing wrong with Incursions. The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part. Those who are moaning and bitching about it have some form of bad feeling towards it for no good reason.

Do we moan about all the Tech moons constantly like you guys do? nope...

Incursions is maybe the fastest way to make isk yes indeed but it is deserved because the majority of subs come from empire people. That is a fact.

If you continue to take away every isk making solution to high sec subs will fall drastically.

It may be in CCPs interest to change them around slightly as they do with everything [just look at PI] I cannot see it changing too much.


Incursions in high sec are 0 risk maximum reward money makers, they help cause imbalances to so many aspects of eve. I doubt a change will affect subs, they're to New to have a specific fan base and many running them are old mission running alts to pay for pvp mains.
Gogela
Krigmakt Elite
Safety.
#39 - 2012-03-12 16:21:23 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.


Decrease null sec bounties by 10%, low sec by 20% and high sec by 50%.

IB4 high sec tears.

You are still just moving numbers around. That's not a sink. That's merely reducing the rate of inflation.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#40 - 2012-03-12 16:23:10 UTC
Andski wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Best way to deal with this is to continue sitting in null running your bots full time while keeping everyone focused on incursions.

Hold on...y'all are already doing that.

Carry on.

Mr Epeen Cool


http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9133

look who's wrong!!!


10 plus days old? Dead and buried. Ten days is forever in bot world as you well know. There is a whole new generation of Bee bots dispersing through 0.0 as we speak. This too, you well know.

What are you trying to distract everyone from? No need to answer. We already know.

Mr Epeen Cool