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Buff mining Ship Defences?
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Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-03-12 13:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Whippy
Velicitia wrote:
nerf CONCORD, make it easier/safer to gank people in hisec.

i.e. in 0.5, CONCORD doesn't show for GCC (navies do). You can avoid the navy legally*.
Now 0.5 sec mining fleets warrant having a defence fleet.


*change aggression mechanics to prevent docking. Jumping *MAY* be OK (i.e. priates can GTFO to low... if they GTFO to hi, well hilarity will ensue when CONCORD murders them on the gate). Navies can see through cloaks and stuff to keep people from safing up and cloaking.


Hey everyone, let's have a mining OP in high-sec! We're going to defend the **** out of that Hulk so it can make us 20M ISK an hour! Much better than incursions yeah! Oh ****, the Hulk just died from a single alpha from a BS because it has **** all defense! Damn, that just cost us 200M!

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Velicitia
XS Tech
#22 - 2012-03-12 13:45:15 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
nerf CONCORD, make it easier/safer to gank people in hisec.

i.e. in 0.5, CONCORD doesn't show for GCC (navies do). You can avoid the navy legally*.
Now 0.5 sec mining fleets warrant having a defence fleet.


*change aggression mechanics to prevent docking. Jumping *MAY* be OK (i.e. priates can GTFO to low... if they GTFO to hi, well hilarity will ensue when CONCORD murders them on the gate). Navies can see through cloaks and stuff to keep people from safing up and cloaking.


Hey everyone, let's have a mining OP in high-sec! We're going to defend the **** out of that Hulk so it can make us 20M ISK an hour! Much better than incursions yeah! Oh ****, the Hulk just died from a single alpha from a BS because it has **** all defense! Damn, that just cost us 200M!


1. don't sit the hulks on the warpin (or don't use a hulk)
2. shield ganglinks
3. tank the hulks
4. Rebo'd Falcon or other Ewar platform
5. ???


If all you're in it for is the isk, then run the damn incursion, but then don't ***** when mineral prices continue to rise because no one's mining.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Aquila Draco
#23 - 2012-03-12 13:58:02 UTC
ship that gank hulks cost millions.
hulk costs hundreds of millions.
Should ship that costs millions kill ship that costs hundreds of millions in under 20 secs - NO FU.CKING WAY
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-03-12 14:08:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Whippy
Velicitia wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
nerf CONCORD, make it easier/safer to gank people in hisec.

i.e. in 0.5, CONCORD doesn't show for GCC (navies do). You can avoid the navy legally*.
Now 0.5 sec mining fleets warrant having a defence fleet.


*change aggression mechanics to prevent docking. Jumping *MAY* be OK (i.e. priates can GTFO to low... if they GTFO to hi, well hilarity will ensue when CONCORD murders them on the gate). Navies can see through cloaks and stuff to keep people from safing up and cloaking.


Hey everyone, let's have a mining OP in high-sec! We're going to defend the **** out of that Hulk so it can make us 20M ISK an hour! Much better than incursions yeah! Oh ****, the Hulk just died from a single alpha from a BS because it has **** all defense! Damn, that just cost us 200M!


1. don't sit the hulks on the warpin (or don't use a hulk)
2. shield ganglinks
3. tank the hulks
4. Rebo'd Falcon or other Ewar platform
5. ???


If all you're in it for is the isk, then run the damn incursion, but then don't ***** when mineral prices continue to rise because no one's mining.



1. Damn, they used a cov ops to get a zero warp in. I'd have never suspected something so cunning! Double damn, they're also using Artillery with a range greater than 30K! That's unheard of!
2. Damn that extra bonus to practically no hit points was surprisingly unaffective against a battleship! I'd have thought that extra thousand hit points would have gone much further!
3. Yay, we got rid of the mining upgrades and now we're only making 10M an hour. It's amazing how much better this is than incursions, or ratting, or exploration, etc.
4. Oops, our falcon was surprisingly unaffective at preventing the alpha from that out of range sniping BS or Tier 3 BC.
5. OMGWTF! They brought more than one ship with them! Never in my wildest dreams did I think they would do that! OMGWTF they Alphard the Hulk Again! That's another 200M loss!
6. OMGWTF they brought 4 thrashers, and the hulk was dead before anyone even got a lock!

Still the maths adds up, RISK Vs reward and all that. A whole fleet unable to protect a hulk that's making 10M an hour. Why isn't everyone doing this I wonder?

Doesn't it make you wonder why you never see mining ops in lowsec! Oh wait.....!

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#25 - 2012-03-12 14:12:37 UTC
There is obviously a market for clues on how to tank your hulks. There is also clearly a market for mining ships with enough inherent tank that they are a challenge to gank even when failfit.

ORE's R&D department is working on the latter. For the former I refer you to my good friends Invulnerability Field II and Damage Control Unit II. With judicious application of these fine fellows and fleet boosters (you do have a fleet, right?) it is possible to make a Hulk quite difficult to kill with a T1 fit ship.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Velicitia
XS Tech
#26 - 2012-03-12 14:16:55 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:

Doesn't it make you wonder why you never see mining ops in lowsec! Oh wait.....!


funny, we've found low and NPC null quite nice for mining...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-03-12 14:18:13 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
There is obviously a market for clues on how to tank your hulks. There is also clearly a market for mining ships with enough inherent tank that they are a challenge to gank even when failfit.

ORE's R&D department is working on the latter. For the former I refer you to my good friends Invulnerability Field II and Damage Control Unit II. With judicious application of these fine fellows and fleet boosters (you do have a fleet, right?) it is possible to make a Hulk quite difficult to kill with a T1 fit ship.


Well duh, I can see you've studied the game in some depth. Another example of someone who clearly doesn't fly a hulk and if he does not understand that what you are suggesting is normally how hulks are fitted. It will NOT save your hulk.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-03-12 14:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Whippy
Velicitia wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:

Doesn't it make you wonder why you never see mining ops in lowsec! Oh wait.....!


funny, we've found low and NPC null quite nice for mining...


ROFL, I doubt that. But hey you can prove it if you like. Tell me where you hold your lowsec mining OPs, and we can soon decide who is right.

It's also very interesting you should say that since you can't even seem to keep a Viator alive.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13380714

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Velicitia
XS Tech
#29 - 2012-03-12 14:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Miss Whippy wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:

Doesn't it make you wonder why you never see mining ops in lowsec! Oh wait.....!


funny, we've found low and NPC null quite nice for mining...


ROFL, I doubt that. But hey you can prove it if you like. Tell me where you hold your lowsec mining OPs, and we can soon decide who is right.


We've mined in Basgerin, Mya, Gerper, and out in Molden Heath -- locations usually depend on where we can find grav sites. Though I don't see why it matters at this point, with trit being as stupidly expensive as it is, there's no need to hunt for stuff in low anymore.

ed -- also, camping the gates is immensely helpful Blink

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-03-12 14:26:47 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:

Doesn't it make you wonder why you never see mining ops in lowsec! Oh wait.....!


funny, we've found low and NPC null quite nice for mining...


ROFL, I doubt that. But hey you can prove it if you like. Tell me where you hold your lowsec mining OPs, and we can soon decide who is right.


We've mined in Basgerin, Mya, Gerper, and out in Molden Heath -- locations usually depend on where we can find grav sites. Though I don't see why it matters at this point, with trit being as stupidly expensive as it is, there's no need to hunt for stuff in low anymore.

ed -- also, camping the gates is immensely helpful Blink


So tell me where you next lowsec mining OP is and we'll put this to the test

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#31 - 2012-03-12 14:46:07 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
There is obviously a market for clues on how to tank your hulks. There is also clearly a market for mining ships with enough inherent tank that they are a challenge to gank even when failfit.

ORE's R&D department is working on the latter. For the former I refer you to my good friends Invulnerability Field II and Damage Control Unit II. With judicious application of these fine fellows and fleet boosters (you do have a fleet, right?) it is possible to make a Hulk quite difficult to kill with a T1 fit ship.


Well duh, I can see you've studied the game in some depth. Another example of someone who clearly doesn't fly a hulk and if he does not understand that what you are suggesting is normally how hulks are fitted. It will NOT save your hulk.

Actually, in my experience ganked hulks are fit for max cargo or mining rate, with tank a secondary consideration unless at war.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15392397
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15392398
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15439177
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15389480

And apparently, with tank a secondary consideration *even if at war*.

Here's one solidly tanked, but pretty clearly not a suicide gank as well:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15436306

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-03-12 14:58:52 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
There is obviously a market for clues on how to tank your hulks. There is also clearly a market for mining ships with enough inherent tank that they are a challenge to gank even when failfit.

ORE's R&D department is working on the latter. For the former I refer you to my good friends Invulnerability Field II and Damage Control Unit II. With judicious application of these fine fellows and fleet boosters (you do have a fleet, right?) it is possible to make a Hulk quite difficult to kill with a T1 fit ship.


Well duh, I can see you've studied the game in some depth. Another example of someone who clearly doesn't fly a hulk and if he does not understand that what you are suggesting is normally how hulks are fitted. It will NOT save your hulk.

Actually, in my experience ganked hulks are fit for max cargo or mining rate, with tank a secondary consideration unless at war.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15392397
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15392398
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15439177
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15389480

And apparently, with tank a secondary consideration *even if at war*.

Here's one solidly tanked, but pretty clearly not a suicide gank as well:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=15436306


This just goes to prove my point. Even a well tanked Hulk DIED TO A FRIGATE! It didn't even take 9K Dmg to do it either.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Velicitia
XS Tech
#33 - 2012-03-12 15:02:34 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:

Doesn't it make you wonder why you never see mining ops in lowsec! Oh wait.....!


funny, we've found low and NPC null quite nice for mining...


ROFL, I doubt that. But hey you can prove it if you like. Tell me where you hold your lowsec mining OPs, and we can soon decide who is right.


We've mined in Basgerin, Mya, Gerper, and out in Molden Heath -- locations usually depend on where we can find grav sites. Though I don't see why it matters at this point, with trit being as stupidly expensive as it is, there's no need to hunt for stuff in low anymore.

ed -- also, camping the gates is immensely helpful Blink


So tell me where you next lowsec mining OP is and we'll put this to the test


no idea. Depends where we find a nice grav site.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-03-12 15:07:13 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


no idea. Depends where we find a nice grav site.


There's one in Hagilur right now. Go there and let's see how long you last.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#35 - 2012-03-12 15:11:22 UTC
It was a serious attempt at tanking, but he took a hulk out mining (apparently solo) while at war.

Note also that there's a *lot* of resists on there. You have to multiply the raw damage dealt by at least 2.5 to account for those resists.

20K damage in 20 seconds or less for ganking would require a fit capable of 1000 DPS. That is certainly possible, but you aren't doing it for *that* much less than the cost of the Hulk.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Velicitia
XS Tech
#36 - 2012-03-12 15:14:55 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Velicitia wrote:


no idea. Depends where we find a nice grav site.


There's one in Hagilur right now. Go there and let's see how long you last.



well, if it's still around when we get on ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-03-12 15:26:06 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
This just goes to prove my point. Even a well tanked Hulk DIED TO A FRIGATE! It didn't even take 9K Dmg to do it either.

Not all the time. Sometimes the hulk can win Roll, this was a counter by someone against hulkaggeddon pilots Lol
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-03-12 15:30:56 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
It was a serious attempt at tanking, but he took a hulk out mining (apparently solo) while at war.

Note also that there's a *lot* of resists on there. You have to multiply the raw damage dealt by at least 2.5 to account for those resists.

20K damage in 20 seconds or less for ganking would require a fit capable of 1000 DPS. That is certainly possible, but you aren't doing it for *that* much less than the cost of the Hulk.


Taking a Hulk out while at war is obviously stupid, you may as well fly solo in lowsec or nullsec. But I'm talking about the problems of Hulk being so easily gankable in high-sec by a solo player who ISN'T at war. The example you gave was a frigate, make that a cruiser and the total dmg taken would be halved if not quartered.

You cannot convince me that the VERY high risk of mining in high-sec is equal to the very low rewards,

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#39 - 2012-03-12 15:35:42 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
It was a serious attempt at tanking, but he took a hulk out mining (apparently solo) while at war.

Note also that there's a *lot* of resists on there. You have to multiply the raw damage dealt by at least 2.5 to account for those resists.

20K damage in 20 seconds or less for ganking would require a fit capable of 1000 DPS. That is certainly possible, but you aren't doing it for *that* much less than the cost of the Hulk.


Taking a Hulk out while at war is obviously stupid, you may as well fly solo in lowsec or nullsec. But I'm talking about the problems of Hulk being so easily gankable in high-sec by a solo player who ISN'T at war. The example you gave was a frigate, make that a cruiser and the total dmg taken would be halved if not quartered.

You cannot convince me that the VERY high risk of mining in high-sec is equal to the very low rewards,

Good.

More isk for me.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-03-12 15:47:39 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
This just goes to prove my point. Even a well tanked Hulk DIED TO A FRIGATE! It didn't even take 9K Dmg to do it either.

Not all the time. Sometimes the hulk can win Roll, this was a counter by someone against hulkaggeddon pilots Lol


While hilarious. It looks to me like those are all rookie ships attacking. Not really surprising they got wiped out by some drones.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]