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Advice on armor logi for a small gang
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Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#1 - 2012-03-12 09:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaikka Carel
I have logistics at 3 and can use both Oneiros and Guardian. Wich one is more preferable for a small scale lowsec gang? And how do I fit them?

Currently I look at these fits

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/49820-Guardian-Cheap-and-Effective.html

http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/57508-Oneiros-LG-Spurs-Altenative.html

Since I am going to be the only logi in the gang I changed Guardian into:

Quote:
[Guardian, Guardian: Cheap and Effective]

Medium 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
Large Remote Armor Repair System II
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x5


But there's one question that concerns me: "Will one logi be efficient enough with BC's or do we have to use T2 hulls to make it worth."
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-03-12 10:24:25 UTC
w/o a ab, you arent going to tank nearly as much as you think you can + you get run down by literally anything.

and whats up w/ t1 lows?
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#3 - 2012-03-12 10:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Single Logi; Oneiros

Multiple Logi; Guardian

The reason for this is that the cap transfer bonus on a Guardian means that with a buddy you can maintain cap stability and actually increase your defence against neuting as the number of logi ships grows higher.

For single logi use an Oneiros because you will really struggle to make a guardian cap stable that can rep like an Oneiros.

Kaikka Carel wrote:
"Will one logi be efficient enough with BC's or do we have to use T2 hulls to make it worth."


T2 hulls have higher base resits so are easier to max out in that department.

Essentially the higher the resists the more effective your rr will be. I would say...

60-65% minimum
60-75% good
75%+ very good

Below 50-60% resists gets to the point where anything short of a blob of logistics will save you against heavy incoming dps.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-12 10:35:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Get your logi skill higher. (logi V would be best, it really really helps
You NEED a T2 tank (if you cant fit this yet use meta4
Use an Oneiros if your on your own (unless you can get cap transfers from someone else in fleet, then use a guardian
1 logi will help your gangs survivability allot if your not to overwhelmed, and you stay alive
Use best named (meta4) components. you’re flying a 100+mill isk ship you can spend a bit more on it

you should be aiming for something like this..

[Oneiros], New Setup 1
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Reactive Membrane II

Conjunctive Magnetometric ECCM Scanning Array
10MN Afterburner II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Spee

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

Medium Ancillary Current Router
Medium Ancillary Current Router

No Worries
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#5 - 2012-03-12 10:39:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaikka Carel
Mfume Apocal wrote:
w/o a ab, you arent going to tank nearly as much as you think you can + you get run down by literally anything.

and whats up w/ t1 lows?


Dunno seems like every last symbol on the line disappeared. :facepalm: now everybody thinks I am a cheapshit who fits T1 reps on a 150kk ship :/

My thought was: "With 70km reps I don't need to run much thus a capbooster may be a better option." But now ppl convinced me to use oneiros and it has no troubles with med slots.

How much AB helps?
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#6 - 2012-03-12 10:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
AB helps a lot. Even at 70km you can take fire from something like a heavy Drake or any of the Tr 3 BC's and be forced off the field. If you orbit or align with the AB you'll mitigate a lot of that damage. Furthermore if you need to burn back to gate without a propulsion module you will probably die in a fire.

There is another option depending on the ships and fleet you are flying....

(Not saying this is better or anything but I've seen them be very effective in certain small gang types)

[Dominix, Utility]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
ECCM - Magnetometric II

Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Garde II x5
Berserker II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-03-12 11:11:15 UTC
Kaikka Carel wrote:
How much AB helps?


hml drakes do about 40% less dps with your ab running.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-03-12 11:52:58 UTC
Kaikka Carel wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
w/o a ab, you arent going to tank nearly as much as you think you can + you get run down by literally anything.

and whats up w/ t1 lows?


Dunno seems like every last symbol on the line disappeared. :facepalm: now everybody thinks I am a cheapshit who fits T1 reps on a 150kk ship :/

My thought was: "With 70km reps I don't need to run much thus a capbooster may be a better option." But now ppl convinced me to use oneiros and it has no troubles with med slots.

How much AB helps?


hmm did that to mine as well Straight strange

AB helps loads for a lot of reasons not just damage reduction.

No Worries
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#9 - 2012-03-12 12:16:12 UTC
@Wacktopia

That's a spider tank domi. We run quite similar for WH.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2012-03-12 12:27:41 UTC
Dual cap boosters turn it into what I believe is sometimes called a "Hospital Domi", those would be quite redundant in a cap chain.

At least the spider fit we fly in wspace has Egress Ports instead of Trimarks to make them permatanking, neut-immune sleeper killers Cool

ChromeStriker, maybe that was supposed to be a Tracking Link, instead of a Tracking Computer on you Oneiros fit? Anyway Tracking Link is an additional advantage an Oneiros could bring to a small gang.

.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-12 12:50:58 UTC
Roime wrote:

ChromeStriker, maybe that was supposed to be a Tracking Link, instead of a Tracking Computer on you Oneiros fit? Anyway Tracking Link is an additional advantage an Oneiros could bring to a small gang.


yep my bad

No Worries
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#12 - 2012-03-12 13:29:22 UTC
Roime wrote:
Dual cap boosters turn it into what I believe is sometimes called a "Hospital Domi", those would be quite redundant in a cap chain.

At least the spider fit we fly in wspace has Egress Ports instead of Trimarks to make them permatanking, neut-immune sleeper killers Cool

ChromeStriker, maybe that was supposed to be a Tracking Link, instead of a Tracking Computer on you Oneiros fit? Anyway Tracking Link is an additional advantage an Oneiros could bring to a small gang.



Ours as well ;)

Tracking links any good? How actually they increase the dps?
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2012-03-12 13:45:18 UTC
Tracking Links give a very nice increase; a good way to deploy your single Logi would be well away from your gangmates (Logis have great rep range), and that's also a good place to put a low EHP sniper like a Tornado, which will benefit hugely from extra tracking and range.

I second the advice to train your Logi skill up further. Because of the way the bonuses work, a Logi with the skill at 5 is much more effective than with the skill at 4 (let alone 3!). Trust me, you'll perceive a big difference.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#14 - 2012-03-12 14:22:12 UTC
If I got the math right, Tracking Link IIs on a Logi V Oneiros should give:

+ 11.25% optimal
+ 22.5% falloff
+ 22.5% tracking speed

So it's like a 50% bonused Tracking Computer II, and can also be scripted. Range-scripted, projected on Taloses with Null is a pretty interesting idea :)

I've found tracking to be extremely important to applied DPS with large turrets, but more range should help all sizes.

Kaikka may I ask what class are you running? In C3s even two of those Domis are quite overpowered, doublespawns are irrelevant so we shoot whatever, and mostly focus on dscan & chatting :D - I wonder if they would work in C4s?

.
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
#15 - 2012-03-12 14:32:13 UTC
If you're a solo-logi strongly consider and MWD and active tank. You don't do any good being forced off the field so you need to have some endurance, kiting and a halfway decent active tank will achieve this. Buffer without receiving any RR just means you'll have to leave your gangmates to die horribly as soon as they primary the logi. Fit a cap booster, you can't waste slots on cap stability (and that one time you run into a Curse would suck without a booster anyway). Shield tanked Onieros used to be pretty cool, post-ony-buff some form of armor tank might be nice as well (dual prop would be good for those drake blobs).
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#16 - 2012-03-12 14:54:34 UTC
@Roime C3. Two are OP truely but one doesn't have a chance Smile We also bring some support to web stuff/shoot the frigs.

@Tamiya Sarossa I get 270dps tank with dualrep. Is that enough? Or just post something proper.

Although my guess is that it's much easier to maintain distance, opponents will be forced to lose time chasing me. But they're more likely to be webbed and scrammed at this point.