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Is extortion by CSM candidates permitted?

First post
Author
Frying Doom
#1 - 2012-03-12 06:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Last night EVE time Trabzz of the Goonswarm Federation had this to say,

Trabzz wrote:
Pheusia wrote:
How are you being pressured to vote against your will?


People are being banned left and right from the forums, some for 90 days or more, for supporting their own candidates. If you can't post your lossmails you can't get reimbursement, so a large amount of money is being denied to anyone that speaks up.

They are also keeping tabs on how individual corps are voting through their own exit polling system, and publishing the stats so that those who refuse to toe the line can be mocked publicly.


This if true is quite clearly Extortion.

Extortion
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Extortion (also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offence which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense. Exaction refers not only to extortion or the unlawful demanding and obtaining of something through force, but additionally, in its formal definition, means the infliction of something such as pain and suffering or making somebody endure something unpleasant."

Now I personally don't know and can't say what CCP's view on this is all I can go by is:

Quote:
Candidate Eligibility

To be considered for eligibility, a candidate must submit a photocopy of a valid passport to CCP. Once CCP has verified the player’s identity and confirmed his or her account status, the candidate’s real name and character selection of choice will be officially announced to the community.
Please note: Icelandic citizens are only required to submit a driver’s license or other valid photo ID. All candidates have to be able to travel to Iceland; CCP will not arrange any permits to enter the country should visa or similar be required.

Warnings for serious EVE-related misconduct might bar the person from running for candidacy.

Candidates are expected to be active on the CSM forums and participate in the discussion of topics. They are also expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow. In addition, they must be willing and able to travel to Iceland once during their term for a direct meeting with the CCP Council. Should a Representative be unable to attend this meeting, an Alternate will attend in his or her place. Transportation to and from Iceland, plus lodging, lunch, and dinner will be provided by CCP. Candidates are responsible for all other expenses incurred during the trip. Elected Representatives and Alternates are required to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) before commencing their term.

If a candidate is unable to fulfill these requirements, the candidate with the next highest vote tally will be given their position. This process will continue until there are a total of nine Representatives and five Alternates.

source: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM#Candidate_Eligibility


If extortion and the like are fit and proper examples for elections why do we even have a CSM. We have that sort of behavior in EVE its self.

The CSM elections are supposed to be
Quote:

Community Elections for Player Representatives

A council of nine player Representatives will be democratically elected by EVE players. Five alternates will also be elected to provide absentee coverage for Representatives. The CSM will be headed by a Chairman and supported by a Vice- Chairman, Secretary, and Vice-Secretary. This group is responsible for managing the operations of the council.


The big word there being democratically as in a democracy.

Democracy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Democracy is an egalitarian form of government in which all the citizens of a nation together determine public policy, the laws and the actions of their state, requiring that all citizens (meeting certain qualifications) have an equal opportunity to express their opinion. In practice, "democracy" is the extent to which a given system approximates this ideal, and a given political system is referred to as "a democracy" if it allows a certain approximation to ideal democracy. Although no country has ever granted all its citizens (i.e. including minors) the vote, most countries today hold regular elections based on egalitarian principles, at least in theory."
it goes on to say
"Elements considered essential to democracy include freedom of political expression, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press, so that citizens are adequately informed and able to vote according to their own best interests as they see them."

The essential element of all this being freedom of political expression.

If this kind of behavior is allowed to stand then all the CSM will become is members of the largest alliances. Hardly elected representatives.

Due to this I am asking that The Mittani's candidacy and any others linked to this extortion be suspended until an investigation into this behavior can done.

I am aware of the ridicule the Goons will level at me for what they will call a crackpot theory but I must point out it was a member of Goonswarm Federation who brought this to the publics attention in the first place.

Frying Doom

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-03-12 06:34:39 UTC
I edited the definition of 'extortion' in Wikipedia so it's all ok now.

CCP barred several candidates from running this year, probably know how Mittani operates, yet didn't bar him, so that's ok.

Your own vote is confidential, so that's ok.

The chair is responsible for "managing the operations of the council", and Mittani has done this better than any chairman so far, so that's ok.

Real-life democracies usually function with political parties that expect their members to toe the party line or face internal sanctions. So that's ok.

Quote:
If extortion and the like are fit and proper examples for elections why do we even have a CSM. We have that sort of behavior in EVE its self.


Extortion and the like are prominent in EVE as admitted by you. The CSM is supposed to represent the playerbase, as admitted by you. But the representatives are not supposed to practice extortion?

I don't see what the problem is?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#3 - 2012-03-12 07:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Guys, goons don't actually reimbuse remember? The Mittani eats all the tech.

Mind you, some CFC membercorps have their own candidates (like TEST). However, some of their members still decided to vote for The Mittani.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Nephilm
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-03-12 07:06:42 UTC
Confirming I'm being forced to vote for mister The Mittani against m









disregard vote the mittani~
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#5 - 2012-03-12 07:07:56 UTC
Oh, oh I see. It's just a trap for silly people to fall into.

Sheesh, I should have been tipped off when apparently it was a goon posting it. Perhaps you'd care to double your isk?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-03-12 07:13:16 UTC
I've been sitting here all day watching all the screen recordings of goons voting. I hear footst

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Sentinel Eeex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-12 08:34:46 UTC
We are required to fraps the voting process, for each account, and send the fraps to war commissar Sad
The Mittani
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-03-12 08:55:46 UTC
This guy is amazing, almost every post he makes includes a c&p of a Wikipedia definition.

~hi~

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-03-12 08:58:02 UTC
Sentinel Eeex wrote:
We are required to fraps the voting process, for each account, and send the fraps to war commissar Sad


and I, the war commissar, have to watch them all, lest Mittani eject me from this noble space guild

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-03-12 08:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Red Templar
Sentinel Eeex wrote:
We are required to fraps the voting process, for each account, and send the fraps to war commissar Sad

Confirming that im one of the red commisars.

Goons use their russian members for extortion and other shady things. Since we have so much experience with rigged elections and have racial bonus perk for shady things.

[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]

Sentinel Eeex
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-12 09:34:44 UTC
And I really wanted to vote for someone else, since I really like the idea of my Nidhoggur wearing a hat and shiny pants X
Susie Chow
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-03-12 11:32:44 UTC
Solodrakban told me that I won't get any more Blackbirds reimbursed if I didn't fraps my vote for The Mittani! It was basically Orwellian mind r***.
Woo Glin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-03-12 11:45:33 UTC
"lol"
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#14 - 2012-03-12 12:20:55 UTC
This thread is amazing.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#15 - 2012-03-12 12:42:47 UTC
If this is true it isn't surprising.

What surprises me more is that someone like Trabbz whines about it whereas he has the option to leave Goons if he isn't in agreement with them.

But a lot of people like the easy way out. Cry like a little baby but don't do anything actually to change their situation.

Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-03-12 13:01:34 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
If this is true it isn't surprising.

What surprises me more is that someone like Trabbz whines about it whereas he has the option to leave Goons if he isn't in agreement with them.

But a lot of people like the easy way out. Cry like a little baby but don't do anything actually to change their situation.



i love how you totally left out the possibility that it's a troll

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-03-12 13:12:38 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
If this is true it isn't surprising.

What surprises me more is that someone like Trabbz whines about it whereas he has the option to leave Goons if he isn't in agreement with them.

But a lot of people like the easy way out. Cry like a little baby but don't do anything actually to change their situation.



If you had also pasted in the Wikipedia entry for "Baby" you would have taken Frying Doom's place as top trollfood, but as it stands this is just your usual badposting.
Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-03-12 13:22:16 UTC
Andski wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
If this is true it isn't surprising.

What surprises me more is that someone like Trabbz whines about it whereas he has the option to leave Goons if he isn't in agreement with them.

But a lot of people like the easy way out. Cry like a little baby but don't do anything actually to change their situation.



i love how you totally left out the possibility that it's a troll

Impossible.

Everything about goons is true and serious. This is a serious game after all, there is not place for bafoonery.

[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-03-12 13:25:44 UTC
Red Templar wrote:
\Impossible.

Everything about goons is true and serious. This is a serious game after all, there is not place for bafoonery.


No, no, no. See, he knows we troll a lot. Whenever we say "that idea is stupid", "WiS is dumb", "that theory is ridiculous", "are you high?", "I think you have mental problems", all of that - we're trolling, obviously.

This one Trabzz post, he KNOWS it's the truth, that it's totally not just confirmation bias and delusion getting into a car accident, and there's nothing we can tell him to make him think otherwise. Why not? We'd be trolling, of course!

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-03-12 13:34:24 UTC
Goons can conduct themselves how they wish. If you don't want to be mocked/banned/whatever, then lie about who you voted for.
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