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Collateral question
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Jeyson Vicious
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-12 03:53:20 UTC
Been reading your forums and have a question. You talk about collateral for transporting jobs. I'm thinking about such services myself because I have a blockade runner alt that is faster than bacon grease, can touch MC Hammer and does it like Sarah Lee.

So if someone offers you a job to move some goods worth 100 million to x-system, is it standard for you to give them say 75 million upfront to even accept the chance to do business in case you get blowed up?
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#2 - 2012-03-12 04:46:47 UTC
Jeyson Vicious wrote:
Been reading your forums and have a question. You talk about collateral for transporting jobs. I'm thinking about such services myself because I have a blockade runner alt that is faster than bacon grease, can touch MC Hammer and does it like Sarah Lee.

So if someone offers you a job to move some goods worth 100 million to x-system, is it standard for you to give them say 75 million upfront to even accept the chance to do business in case you get blowed up?

Give? No.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#3 - 2012-03-12 05:08:56 UTC
Collatteral is part of a courrier contract.

when a courrier is set up, you can add a collatteral, you as contracter pay that money to the SCC, who 'holds' it for now.
When you complete the contract, it is paid back to you, if you fail the contract it is paid to the one who set the contract up.
Either way, it's the SCC that has that money, just like the SCC is the one where the contractor deposits teh reward for said contract.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
Jeyson Vicious
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-03-12 05:42:50 UTC
Okay. I assume the SCC is an in-game mechanic. I'll look into this. Thanks
Hans Tesla
RigWerks Incorporated
#5 - 2012-03-12 21:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Tesla
Jeyson Vicious wrote:
So if someone offers you a job to move some goods worth 100 million to x-system, is it standard for you to give them say 75 million upfront to even accept the chance to do business in case you get blowed up?


If someone is offering a Corier Contract with goods valued at 100M ISK and collateral set at 75M ISK, it may behoove you to "lose" that shipment at the nearest trade hub and "accidentally" find 25M ISK profit.

Pro-Am Tip: When making a Courier Contract, make sure collateral at least covers the value of the goods being shipped. In most cases, charge more in collateral than the value of the goods being shipped to make up for the time you'll spend replinishing the order. Unlike some, I prefer not to enflate the collateral requirement to ridiculous levels, maybe 10%-20% more than the value of the goods.

Head Rigger In Charge
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2012-03-12 22:23:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Jeyson Vicious wrote:
Okay. I assume the SCC is an in-game mechanic. I'll look into this. Thanks

SCC = Secure Commerce Commission (an NPC corp).

EVElopedia wrote:
The SCC is responsible for regulating and monitoring all trade transactions that take place on space stations. It has agents on all stations that record the transactions and they also offer courier and escrow services to make trade smooth.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contracts#Courier

Example: I recently made a courier contract to move two expensive items (40 m3 total) 10 jumps, because I couldn't be bothered doing it myself. The replacement cost was around 525 million, so I made the collateral 550 million in case of loss. I paid a reward of 250,000 per jump. It took 44 minutes from the time I created the contract for the items to be delivered.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#7 - 2012-03-12 22:48:33 UTC
Take a look at http://red-frog.org/

They move stuff for people. (55 thousand contracts last year, according to their figures).

You /always/ set the collateral to cover the total value of the goods. Possibly with a little more. Don't set above a billion, because people won't take it (looks like a Ganking contract. no need to worry about drops, when you know you'll get at least the collateral back)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#8 - 2012-03-13 05:36:51 UTC
Red-Frog, PUSH, and a handful of others.

Never set your collateral for less then the value of the goods, or it *will* get stolen. Never underestimate the greed of a public courier contract pilot who is flying a freighter, is probably bored to death, and who will go poking about inside your package to see whether you screwed up on the collateral.

It costs you nothing to put a correct collateral on the shipment. Unlike real-world shipping where you pay a percentage of value to insure the contents against theft / loss. In EVE, it adds nothing to the cost of the contract.
rufeno
Black Frog Logistics
Red-Frog
#9 - 2012-03-14 01:50:22 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Red-Frog, PUSH, and a handful of others.

Never set your collateral for less then the value of the goods, or it *will* get stolen. Never underestimate the greed of a public courier contract pilot who is flying a freighter, is probably bored to death, and who will go poking about inside your package to see whether you screwed up on the collateral.

It costs you nothing to put a correct collateral on the shipment. Unlike real-world shipping where you pay a percentage of value to insure the contents against theft / loss. In EVE, it adds nothing to the cost of the contract.


that's true for public contract.

for private contract, the more collateral, the higher the fee.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#10 - 2012-03-14 04:23:06 UTC
rufeno wrote:

for private contract, the more collateral, the higher the fee.


Red Frog (for sure) doesn't charge more for high collateral, as long as you stay below the 1B ISK maximum for Red Frog services. (For higher value shipments, you have to go with Blue Frog, and they do charge more for higher levels of collateral.)

Not sure about PUSH.
malaire
#11 - 2012-03-14 09:08:43 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
rufeno wrote:

for private contract, the more collateral, the higher the fee.


Red Frog (for sure) doesn't charge more for high collateral, as long as you stay below the 1B ISK maximum for Red Frog services. (For higher value shipments, you have to go with Blue Frog, and they do charge more for higher levels of collateral.)

Not sure about PUSH.

Push Industries accepts upto 5 bil collateral, but fee will be multiplied accordingly. (i.e. base fee for upto 1 bil, 2x fee for 2 bil, etc..)

However not all of their pilots have 5 bil cash, so smaller collateral contracts might be handled faster (last time I asked).

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Porkita
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-03-18 06:17:37 UTC
malaire wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
rufeno wrote:

for private contract, the more collateral, the higher the fee.


Red Frog (for sure) doesn't charge more for high collateral, as long as you stay below the 1B ISK maximum for Red Frog services. (For higher value shipments, you have to go with Blue Frog, and they do charge more for higher levels of collateral.)

Not sure about PUSH.

Push Industries accepts upto 5 bil collateral, but fee will be multiplied accordingly. (i.e. base fee for upto 1 bil, 2x fee for 2 bil, etc..)

However not all of their pilots have 5 bil cash, so smaller collateral contracts might be handled faster (last time I asked).


That's almost correct :)

Our collateral stepping at Push is by an additional 0.5x multiplier for each 0.5B collateral after 1B.

The contrary might be the case too. A really high-collateral one might be handled earlier, if someone is able to do it just then and nobody else might be that soon. Though usually we always arrange that and the more time passes, the more pilots have higher collaterals at hand.

There has been also cases where we handled up to 15B couriers, though those are usually exceptions and will need to be arranged with a Push representative, if it exceeds the 5B.

Back on-topic, it's actually never a good idea to under- or over-collaterize couriers, regardless if they are public or privately handled.

Also, if someone asks you to send him 75M upfront for goods worth 100M instead of making a proper courier (that's kinda how i understood what the OP wrote), it might be a scam attempt to just get your 75M. If it's for whatever reason necessary to have the items-to-be-delivered exchanged for isk, instead of making a courier (as example we at Push do this for shipping large ships that can't be set in a courier because of volume issues), have the other make an itemexchange contract. That's the only reason I can think right now, where it would be appropriate to have collateral lower than the value of the goods, to prevent someone using you to just "sell" something fast instead of selling it at the market.


There is no need to move stuff, because now you can push it!