These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP do something about the suicide ganking problem

Author
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2012-03-11 22:51:33 UTC
Schmacos tryne wrote:
An I5 can haul more then 40kM3... Don't need an Orca.

…and what is the align time of that I5? The EHP? How scan-proof is it? How much does it drop when it gets blown up?

Oh, and the Orca can carry more than 40k m³ as well (up to 527.5k m³, actually, if you have a good mix, and before adding in such tricks as increasing the cargo space and using cans). The thing is, of course, that it's not a good idea to do so.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#42 - 2012-03-11 22:59:50 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Skydell wrote:
I undocked at 4-4 last night in an empty badger and the split second I clicked to use my insta, I was locked and scanned. They have a .8 second lock, it isn't like you are going to do anything about it.

Sure there are a hundred one trick pony tactics you can use to evade, as many "don't do that" mantra's alive and thriving in EVE but at the end of the day I am reminded of how CCP have shown an eager willingness to coddle free to play dust bunnies but paying Industrials in EVE? You are goon food, go fuckyourself.


Nothing against hi sec ganking.

But calling it "the only PvP left for hi sec" sounds like someone is as carebear at refusing to go PvP in low / 0.0 sec as those hi seccers they want to kill. Nobody pays you to stay in hi sec, if you find it too restrictive to pew pew in there.

Finally, I think CCP should review the lock times. Like nano-extreme brought a nerf, like super unscannable ships got nerfed, CCP should also make lock times limited to a minimum of 1 simulation heartbeat plus about 100ms for out of UK players.


High sec neutral suicide is the only 1 to 3 man PvP left in EVE. Bring anything smaller than a 20 man to low sec or null sec and it's less about PvP and more about evasion. I don't much care if they lock me to be honest. It would be nice to rig a ship to counter scanning though. That's where smuggling comes in to play in EVE. Smuggling that never really came about.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#43 - 2012-03-11 23:05:55 UTC
I highly doubt that that gank threshold for a freighter cargo is so low as 700m. For a start, you have that 50% (at best) drop rate. Then you have the 12 or 15 guys who want to actually turn a profit. And then you have the opportunity cost of shooting at a crappy cargo and spending 15 mins watching all the good stuff fly by. And then there are the ninja looters.

I'd say you were ok with 2bill, Much more if its low value high bulk stuff.

And if its compact high value stuff, you shouldn't use a freighter to move it...
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-03-11 23:17:27 UTC
Pheusia wrote:
I highly doubt that that gank threshold for a freighter cargo is so low as 700m. For a start, you have that 50% (at best) drop rate. Then you have the 12 or 15 guys who want to actually turn a profit. And then you have the opportunity cost of shooting at a crappy cargo and spending 15 mins watching all the good stuff fly by. And then there are the ninja looters.

I'd say you were ok with 2bill, Much more if its low value high bulk stuff.

And if its compact high value stuff, you shouldn't use a freighter to move it...


Plastic wrap is the result of? Blink
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#45 - 2012-03-11 23:21:44 UTC
For me the only reason Ive even tried suicide ganking is cuz I got ganked once myself. But yeah its getting BRUTAL even by my standards. Its not a big deal as theres a million and one ways around it and its about knowing the game and the player patterns within it thatll save your bacon the most

Yet given the information out there you can compile a list of targets a mile long, and not only using locator agents but soon you can simply just do it in your head. Beyond that its scan away and get lucky or use spies and intel to know your targets and gank that way

Wealth redistribution if you ask me

What I do wonder is what CCP will do with it in the future. The tornado and the talos are wicked gank ships and fun PvP boats to say the least and the dps increase of the destroyers makes catalysts and thrashers even more deadly solo or in packs and the speed at which either of these ships can be reach is incredibly fast. With the flood of incursion and other isk to keep gankers afloat ganking for profit and lolz to their hearts content even in high sec loot pinatas really dont stand much of a chance anymore

The fact that a corp looking to increase its isk efficiency can just suicide a jump freighter even empty or with minimal cargo or that no mission boat, incursion runner or hauler anywhere is safe from the threat of the gank is going to develop an interesting gaming environment and it already has. Perhaps this is the null designed plan to get more people out of high sec to the "safer" areas of null sec or even low sec to continue to make isk by simply making high sec MORE dangerous than the worst areas of null or low could ever be

The fact that any 30 day noob account in a catalyst can solo gank mackinaws till the cows come home macrominer or not or that hulkaggedon might as well be considered a year long event now as it never seems to start or end now that Mittanis Ice Interdictions have become economic warfare SOPs for the Goons


Theres literally no way around it for anyone as the application of enough DPS to the right resist holes will always spell W-R-E-C-K and the only need to overcome larger buffers or higher resists is to just ad M-O-A-R DPS. And what if an alliance like the Goons would take up positions on all the major trade routes, at all the major hubs, on all the major stations in a continuous "wolfpack" style blockade of high sec? Revolving 'nados and thrashers, catalysts and talos' destroying shipping in the tonnage of the infamous U-boat "Happy Times". Could such a thing bring trade to a grinding halt in high sec? If every hauler, full or empty was simply destroyed en masse

The finances are certainly there, the sheer numbers are there and the tools are certainly within the games scope. Incursions alone could finance such a struggle for months if not years without intervention. But is the will?...... Time will tell of such things. But the gank is here to stay and shall only grow bigger imo as it is always darkest before the break of day.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

gfldex
#46 - 2012-03-11 23:36:33 UTC
Skydell wrote:
I undocked at 4-4 last night in an empty badger and the split second I clicked to use my insta, I was locked and scanned. They have a .8 second lock, it isn't like you are going to do anything about it.


The cargo scanner got a 4s cycle time.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

gfldex
#47 - 2012-03-11 23:42:13 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
And what if an alliance like the Goons would take up positions on all the major trade routes, at all the major hubs, on all the major stations in a continuous "wolfpack" style blockade of high sec?


That would be fun to watch but would not last. Goons build only a fraction of the ships they lose.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.

Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#48 - 2012-03-12 00:26:56 UTC
Suicide ganking is part of the game. Eve is a harsh game, not WoW, or STO or any other MMO.

I'm a freighter pilot and industrialist, and I make oodles of money manufacturing and shipping things. Making sure I don't get ganked in my freighter is just part of the game for me. I've learned how to avoid being ganked, sure i get scanned once in a while, if i'm 'pushing it' on my cargo, it means I'll dock immediately somewhere, wait a few hours and then continue my journey.
Otherwise, I'll just wave at them, tell them there's nothing to see here, and move on.

It's the most interesting part of Eve for me. the reason I play this game, and continue playing it. The fact that there is always somewhere the threat of losing it all, the fact that accomplishing something in Eve actually is a real accomplishment, and not some hoop you jumped through some devs thought up and gave you a free epic, which is now yours to keep for ever and ever.
( read: until the next exansion when it becomes worthless junk )

Another fun part of being a parttime trader and industrialist is that I supply one and all with stuff, and I get to play 'connect the dots'.
Logging on, watching who sold me what kind of stuff that is generally hauled, who bought ganking ships, who bought new hauling ships, etc. then trying to figure out who killed who while I was sleeping and making money.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?

Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-03-12 00:34:04 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
If you can't ship effectively you go from large industrialists spooling up large jobs to little guys moving in a stack of maybe 100 mods at a time. This is not a good thing for an effective low price point.


But it's great for small industrialists and regional market hubs. You're making some very good arguments in favor of suicide ganking.


The problem is that there are two different time frames.
1. Industrial job time which is an AFK activity.
2. Hauling time, which is an (semi-ATK) activity.

Somebody is going to need to haul minerals to the trade hub for the small industrialists. Since this is an atk activity they are going to want to make a certain, inflation adjusted, amount per trip.

Small industrialists want a percentage return for tying their isk in an industry job.

The problem is that industrialists set the inflation base for the game. Mineral prices will rise to reflect the premium on haulage. Because mineral prices rise, the price of goods rises to meet the profit expectations of the producers. Because prices of goods have risen the hauler will ask more for the next shipment of goods. Rinse and repeat for an inflationary spiral.
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-03-12 00:38:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
I was attacked once 4 years ago in my hauler. I do 4 or 5 trips into and out of jita every day and have been scanned twice in 5 months.

I don't think this is as big an issue as the OP thinks.


Turn automatic lockback on. You aren't seeing the scans in the chaos of Jita.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#51 - 2012-03-12 00:50:16 UTC
Don't like being cargo scanned at the undock?, 3 words for you, collateral+courier+contract. Red Frog or Push industries will quite happily take the risk of being scanned, it's part of the job.

It's very rare I set foot in Jita and when I do I tend to leave empty, or explode hilariously.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#52 - 2012-03-12 00:58:45 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I was attacked once 4 years ago in my hauler. I do 4 or 5 trips into and out of jita every day and have been scanned twice in 5 months.

I don't think this is as big an issue as the OP thinks.


Turn automatic lockback on. You aren't seeing the scans in the chaos of Jita.


Indeed. I see 2-3 scanner spamming frigates in Jita every time I'm there.

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg

beor oranes
Annihilate.
Strictly Unprofessional
#53 - 2012-03-12 00:59:42 UTC
Though not in the last little while, I have over the years moved billions (up to abour 10bil) at a time in and out of Jita. The only time I got ganked was when I left some T2 BPC's in a shuttle by accident and AP'd to Jita and was sat on a gate for about 20 minutes. Suicide ganking is easily avoidable if you take simple and common sense precautions, if you don't you deserve to lose your ship and cargo.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#54 - 2012-03-12 01:01:47 UTC
Valentyn3 wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
I was attacked once 4 years ago in my hauler. I do 4 or 5 trips into and out of jita every day and have been scanned twice in 5 months.

I don't think this is as big an issue as the OP thinks.


Turn automatic lockback on. You aren't seeing the scans in the chaos of Jita.


Indeed. I see 2-3 scanner spamming frigates in Jita every time I'm there.


The yellow box is a bit of a giveaway.
Raiz Nhell
Tactically Challenged
The Initiative.
#55 - 2012-03-12 01:11:27 UTC
I feel left out, I regularly haul to and from Jita 4-4... and haven't been locked, scanned and ganked. either on the gate or the 4-4 undock...

I must admit I either fly a tanked Orca with the most valuable stuff in the corp hanger (Which BTW I think should be scannable and droppable) or a Crane for small stuff, cloak off just using it for speed...

And I always come in from Sobaseki...
So either I'm lucky or someone is doing it wrong...



There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.

Ai Shun
#56 - 2012-03-12 01:39:48 UTC
Raiz Nhell wrote:
So either I'm lucky or someone is doing it wrong...


They probably take one look at your portrait and decide there is no way they're going to **** with such a fierce looking pilot.
Bryg Philomena
Fweddit
Free Range Chikuns
#57 - 2012-03-12 02:28:14 UTC
Chill out, bro.

I lost over 6b isk the other day to a suicide gank. Did I cry? Nope. I just dusted myself off, wished them luck in their next gank and got on with Eve. Do the same.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#58 - 2012-03-12 02:37:12 UTC
i agree, and to balance things out remove all forms of income from highsec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2012-03-12 02:43:57 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I'll kick this thread up a notch.

Suicide ganking is a viable tactic, but you should be podded by Concord for it.

Cold, harsh and unforgiving is the mantra, I believe. Make it true CCP. Pod the bastards.

Mr Epeen Cool


Or your carebear ass can stop being dependent on NPCs and pod gankers -5 and down? You can already do that.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-03-12 02:48:43 UTC
Why would my pod being blown up stop me from suicide ganking? Sounds like pubbie logic.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.