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Frustrations with WH probing
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Mr Kidd

Center for Advanced Studies

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 1,753

#21 - 2012-03-11 19:25:06 UTC | Edited by: Mr Kidd

Eso Es wrote:

So my char has level IV astrometrics, pinpointing II, rangefinding II. .... I CANNOT SCAN DOWN A WH. Using a 5 probe formation

So, use 7 probes. You have the skills for it. CCP changed the way probes gather a signal. Each probe contributes to sig strength whereas before they changed it, only the 4 probes with the best results would contribute no matter how many you were using. Using less than your skills allow is doing yourself a dis-service.

There are 4 probing skills btw. Astrometrics, Rangefinding, Pinpointing and.......AND.....Acquisition. Get them all up to level 4 and you're golden.

Don't ban me, bro!

Vihura

Vihura Cor

Likes received: 74

#22 - 2012-03-12 16:33:47 UTC | Edited by: Vihura

Dirael Papier wrote:

Eso Es wrote:

So I have succesfully scanned and entered several WHs now. While I really do enjoy scanning and "the hunt", I cannot believe how tedious it is to have to scan down like 15 sigs in 1 system just to find another WH. slowly working your probes down from 16AU to 1AU just to find the sig is a LADAR/GRAV etc site is ridiculous. Has there been any talk to changing this??

You may already know some of this stuff, and if you do then all well and good. Gonna go ahead and post it anyways though.

Some helpful controls to know

Hold shift while moving a probe to move all of the probes together.
Hold shift while grabbing the edge of a probe's bubble and scale it in/out. All probe ranges scale in/out.
Hold alt while moving a probe to move all of the probes closer together/farther apart
Click on a probe's name (or the name of anything else) in the Solar System map to center the camera on the selected object.
If you hold down the left mouse button to move your probes and keep holding down the left mouse button, then you can press the right mouse button to undo your last action. (Once you let go of the left mouse button you can no longer undo)

One way to get your probes centered on an object somewhat quickly is to do the following:

Open your Tactical view (Ctrl+D, or click the icon that looks like a sundial)
Look at the tactical readout's horizon (the side of the disk, so it's just a straight line)
Hold shift and center your probes on the signature
Move the camera to a top-down view so you're looking directly down on the tactical readout (it should be close to a perfect circle)
Hold shift and center your probes on the signature.
Hold shift and resize the scan radius of all of your probes as needed
Hold alt and move your probes closer together as needed
Scan and repeat until satisfied

*Note: The tactical display isn't actually necessary for anything, it's just helpful to tell you when you're looking directly at the side of the solar system map for the first time you center your probes

Also some information about what kind of feedback probes can return.

Red sphere: Only one probe has detected this signature. The signature is somewhere around the edge of the red sphere (not inside).
Red circle: Two probes have detected this signature. Again, the signature is somewhere around the edge of the red circle (not inside).
Two red dots: Three probes have detected this signature. The signature is around one of these points.
One red dot: Four+ probes have detected this signature. Center the probes around this spot and scan.
Yellow triangle: Your probes are strong enough to determine the type of signature being scanned. This is the point when any signature-type-specific (Radar/Ladar/Gravimetric/Magnetometric etc.) filters you have set will kick in, and the signature will be discarded if you have a filter set for it. Before this point the signature will show up even if it's filtered! If you have signatures randomly disappearing when you get closer to them, check your filter settings.
Green triangle: You have scanned down the site to 100% and can now warp to it. Remember to make a bookmark of the signature so you don't need to scan it down later

Most signatures will be within 4AU of a planet, although wormholes will be within 8AU. So if you have a red sphere/red circle/two dots then you can use this information to determine where the signature might actually be.

If the edge of the sphere/circle passes through a single planet for instance, check there.
If you have 4+ probes out but only get a sphere/circle and multiple planets are close to the edge of that sphere/circle, check around the planet(s) that are farther from the center of your probes yet still along the edge of the sphere/circle.
If one of the two red dots is far away from any planets while the other is closer to a planet, check the closer one.

Hope some of that info is helpful to you, and happy scanning. :)

This...

Tauranon

Weeesearch

CAStabouts

Likes received: 1,142

#23 - 2012-03-13 08:18:39 UTC

Ajita al Tchar wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

The ONLY way to scan for signatures is to allow all types and selectively block the signature IDs you don't want. This new disappearing feature is completely useless.

Yeah, I agree with that, personally. It's not helpful because when you filter something out without ignoring it, it won't disappear from the list of sigs in the system and will just show up again when under 25% strength if you hit its location again (at which point you have to remember if it's the one that disappeared and is therefore unwanted).

Maybe there's a good way to use the new filters and I'm just not doing it right, but I find them useless at best.

The filter is good for DSTs, as they show everything otherwise, including structures, ships and drones. May not be useful to an astro IV pilot who is just using core probes of some description - I never used em until I got astro V.

Hathrul

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 331

#24 - 2012-03-13 11:09:01 UTC

if you spend a lot of time in wh space, you will want all skills at lvl 4 as soon as you can. covert-ops or t3 electronic subsystem 5 is recommended as well, as is astrometrics level 5. you can do without, but since its one of the things youll do the most, its worth the investment

there are many ways to deploy probes and set up your scan setup. personally i use 7 or 8 probes depending on how many sigs there are.

if not many (less then 15) i use 7. move 4 probes into a cross by moving 1 in each direction, then move 1 up and 1 down. with good skills you should be able to grab nearly all signature types at 4 au. those that you cant are the high value ladars, gravs, and small basic sig wormholes.

if there are many signatures i use 8. 4 probes at 4 or 8AU (depending on size of the system and distance between planets) and 4 at 1au, and make a square within a square. scan, find a nice dot for a signature, put the 1au square over it, and itll grab the signature. often at 100% or close, and pretty much always good enough to identify. the main problem with this way is that if you move probes around while holding shift and you missclick all your probes resize...and you start over again.

Jack Miton

School of Applied Knowledge

Caldari State

Likes received: 5,031

#25 - 2012-03-13 12:22:03 UTC | Edited by: Jack Miton

Good probing takes practice. A lot of it.
Find someone who knows how to probe decently and learn off them.
The current probing system is actually very good and allows for many different methods and skill levels.

Ive gotten my prober's skills and technique down to being able to probe out any WH system ive come across (most sigs iv'e seen is 54) in less than 15 minutes, and know several probers with similar abilities, but i certainly went through a phase of spending an hour doing 20-25 sigs.

The deep space probe guide is quite good and is a good method to use if you have average skills or are after a specific sig that is in its own strength category.
personally i don't use it since i find it easier to just probe everything in WHs almost every time.
especially if youre going to be leaving a wh route open from your home wh, you want to be damn sure you didnt miss any WHs while probing.

as a note, you should never have your probes over 8au unless you are monitoring an already probed system for new sigs.

There is no Bob.

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Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel 215
Naomi Wildfire Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel Likes received: 215	#26 - 2012-03-18 20:06:45 UTC Holy **** that gave me some serious headaches for the last few hours, i never thought about some kind of filter implemented while i was inactive. ISD BH Newmind > Jingle bells, Tuxford smells, Falcon laid an egg =D

Ikonia

Royal Amarr Expeditions

Likes received: 87

#27 - 2012-03-19 15:22:33 UTC

Well, i have most skills on IV for scanning, using rigged Anathema with sister probe launcher and sister probes.

I HAD the problem with vanishing signatures also and solved it.

How i scan:

Enter system, warp to sun, 1 probe range 32AU and scan.
Responses and i launch 4 more probes.
Then i start positioning them
O O
O
O O
Important is the overlapping distance of them. I found that at least more than 60% of the bubbles should be inside the center bubble. If its more then 70%, then results can cause problems.

If u got troubles with a vanishing sig, then i increase the center bubble to oversize the overlapping of the surrounding bubbles and get therefor different results. That wont work always, but so far it was working fine for me. Since i am using the sisters launcher and sister probes, i dont had any troubles on vanishing sigs at all.

Cheers