EVE General Discussion

but :siren: TECH MOONS :siren:

I do deny it, especially when it comes to High Sec Incursion runners. A good portion of them are likely alts of Null Sec, Low Sec and WH players who would happily adapt back to making their ISK in their main areas of play were the game not so out of balance in terms of risk vs reward. Those that are players that want PvP free high reward PvE raids should be shown the door, and the long term health of EVE will be better for their passing.

I'm pointing towards the fact that a lot of these people don't understand that tech moons are alliance assets. Logistics teams devote a lot of hours into emptying silos, fueling towers and adjusting stront levels. They have to be defended, and it is not uncommon to lose more ISK in ships (especially triage carriers) than the ISK value of a month's output from that moon. But even with that, an alliance that holds a small handful of these moons would have income similar to an alliance that holds numerous R64s.

Tech moons need to be nerfed, but not for the same reason as high-sec incursions.

"A good portion"? Most of the people I've run incursions with were pure carebears who just wanted some group pve. What's more is that incursions don't pay out nearly what people like to claim they do, especially when compared to level 4s. If you're pulling 100mil an hour in incursions, odds are you were pulling 60-70 in lvl 4s, with fewer delays, no reliance on fleets etc. For every fleet that breaks the 100mil/hour mark, there are 2-3 that struggle to hit 60, and so what if they pay more than level 4s? They SHOULD.

Incursions are competitive, and they're a form of income that CAN be attacked, most people just don't care enough to muster up the 60 guys to down the mom site.

Mind you I'm not against nerfing vanguards, which do pay too much for the challenge they provide, but a rather modest fix of a couple cruisers in NCOs, maybe a BS in an NMC and forcing fleets to clear the sites 100% to get the payout would be plenty to fix that issue. People who seem to think that the isk/hour should be cut in half are insane. Assaults and HQs on the other hand are in need of a buff, as they don't really surpass missions in terms of the isk they can generate even when run without interruptions.

If you REALLY want to see something done about the balance issues between high and nullsec, then your best bet is to push CCP to undo those terrible nullsec changes that went through because they seem to think that people fighting over a handful of systems is more important than getting people out into null in the first place. Undo the changes that made 90% of null worse than highsec level 4 grinding, which is the REAL reason there's no reason for most people to farm in null.

Around 6B per day ISK added to the market. That's what they add. ******* ridiculous economy destabilization.

some of it drops on my d!k, you can lick those too

Your a ******

/tread

…except that it was dire before that, and people moving to something that is even more efficient at injecting ISK only makes an already dire situation even more dire.

…except that it is a very real ISK faucet — the third largest in the game, in fact, and that the above explains why it's a problem that needs to be addressed.

Again "Incursion Bears" are running away from the topic.... the topic was:
What do highsec incursioners bring to the eve universe?

Do they have a pro/con mechanic?
Is there a way for other players to deny their isk other then forming.... another PVE blob and getting mercs sicked on them?
How is it that condord can't "defend" its space from sansha, but can insta-pop a ganker no problem during a incursion?


Like I said before and I'll say again, Incursions are meant to make people who didn't have half the dedication you had richer then you... I mean if you trained a Indy character for years, congrats you've been screwed since someone can run a incursion and make more in a hour then you can mining all day.


OVERALL: The farming mechanic need to be removed, makes no sense that you WANT the MOM ship to live as long as possible while farming sites for HOURS.... NO other activity in EVE has that benefit... NONE

Good points that should be considered.

But do we really know they came from null sec ratting or level 4s, as opposed to running wormhole sites, mining, faction war missions with no bounties or any of the many other ways to get isk in this game? Really the only thing we know is that allot of isk is being added due to incursions.

Even if we look at level 4 or 5 missions its likely that the lp plays a much bigger role in the isk you make doing those than the actual bounties. Not so with incursions. Many incursion runners make so much isk they don't even include the lp profits when they give the amount they make per hour.

And your point about lp generally being self correcting is a good one - except it doesn't really apply to incursions. If I fly for say boundless then I will be able to make a certain amount per lp until allot of people start to run for the same corp. The same thing holds true for each of the factions for faction war missions.

However, the concord lp doesn't have to obey these rules because you can convert concord lp to any lp store except the pirate and faction war stores. So the concord lp just tends to destroy all the traditional lp stores that used to be a good isk sink.

We can see this happening with the tags going up in price. Same number of people are producing the tags. Yet there is much larger demand for the tags because of lp giveaway in incursions. This leads to the tags going up in price.

Now as the lp stores are dying what do you think will happen? Well it used to be they would start running missions for a new corp with a different lp store. But now with incursion runners able to tap out the best items that is no solution. So the lp stores are a bust. So people do things other than try to gain lp. In other words, people will do other things other than try to gain something that was a very good isk sink.

Why did all this dumb get piled on eve? Well at the time incursions came out it was the only thing ccp did that involved spaceships at all. It was very important that it be viewed as a success. So they decided to throw insane amounts of isk and rewards for doing it. That helped them claim it was a success.

In reality incursions aren't really all that fun. They are just an alternate isk grind. If they paid anything close to other forms of pve for the same risk very few would do them.