These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Laser Cystals - Not All They 'Cracked' Up To Be
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zeroniss
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#1 - 2012-03-11 05:40:11 UTC
Ah I made a really bad joke in the title about laser crystals and their breaking.

Being serious though, this is a small, albeit annoying problem. Projectile and Charges count how many rounds of ammunition you have. Missiles count how many rounds of ammunition you have. Surely there should be a friendlier interface to see how much damage your laser crystals have?

Currently there are two ways that I know of to check if your crystals are damaged:

1. Undock in space, load the crystals into your gun, and hover over to record the percentage damage. A very difficult and tedious process, especially if you need to check multiple crystals.

2. Through the Contracts interface. Inconvenient if you are again dealing with any number of crystals at all (really, create a whole contract just to see their damage percentage?), not to mention that it is highly difficult to differentiate between multiple crystals that may have differing damage upon them.

This is further exacerbated when swapping crystals, where the system will often confuse itself between used and unused crystals and will mix the stacks up, thereby giving you odd breakage cycles on your crystals.

This becomes very problematic when a random crystal in a group of guns will break, thereby rendering the entire group unable to fire till you reload that one crystal manually (why can't Laser Crystals reload automatically like other ammunition?)

Proposal:

It would be a difficult task to show the percentage damage on each individuals crystal's tooltip (though this would be the ideal solution). Instead, please include a damage tab in the crystal's 'Show Info' tab so that it is atleast easier to tell when a crystal is damaged. If a column depicting the same is present in the assets tab or the 'View Contents' tab when looking at a ship, it would be very useful too.
Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
#2 - 2012-03-11 05:59:02 UTC
Crystals are substantially more efficient with regards to isk cost per shot than projectiles or any other faction/tech II ammo. Not knowing how many shots is a fair trade I think.
Zeroniss
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#3 - 2012-03-11 06:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeroniss
Kolya Medz wrote:
Crystals are substantially more efficient with regards to isk cost per shot than projectiles or any other faction/tech II ammo. Not knowing how many shots is a fair trade I think.


I'm not talking about showing us data that you cannot possibly predict, like how many shots are left (impossible to predict since the cystals work on a volatility cycle with a chance of damage on every shot).

I'm talking about showing the damage they ALREADY have that can ALREADY be seen in a slightly more convenient manner.

Edit: Also, addressing what you said about best ISK cost/shot.

Your calculation is incorrect again because of the nature of crystals.

Take a standard Scorch M. Costs ~ 900k. Volatility 0.1% with 0.0100 HP damage per damage cycle.

By the very nature of chance, your crystal has the possibility of breaking in 100 shots (9000 ISK/shot, making it one of the most expensive), or lasting forever because the damage cycle never occurs.

Working on the law of averages I can see why you would reach the conclusion you did, but really, crystals do not work like standard ammunition and a comparison on the ISK/shot basis is a silly one (unless you're talking about T1 ammo, in which case yes Lasers do outshine).
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-03-11 06:31:21 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Do a search next time.

Kolya Medz wrote:
Crystals are substantially more efficient with regards to isk cost per shot than projectiles or any other faction/tech II ammo. Not knowing how many shots is a fair trade I think.

The fair trade is being forced into doing only EM and thermal damage. There's no reason, for balance or otherwise, to not show frequency crystal damage.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#5 - 2012-03-11 07:25:22 UTC
Actually I think it would be trivial to just superimpose a percentage over the crystal's inventory icon. Not doing so is simply lazy, OR the EVE code base so even more screwed up and funky then I had realized.

Overhaul Dscan!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-03-11 21:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Ines Tegator wrote:
Actually I think it would be trivial to just superimpose a percentage over the crystal's inventory icon. Not doing so is simply lazy, OR the EVE code base so even more screwed up and funky then I had realized.

Actually I really like this idea. It wouldn't force us to go into menus or anything like that. The information would be right there.

But yes, it's incredibly frustrating when your T2 ammo doesn't all break at the same time, forcing you to cycle and reload your guns manually every 3 or 4 volleys. If I notice the crystals getting up to 90% damage I usually throw them away at that point and put fresh ones in.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Asudem
Black Spear.
#7 - 2012-03-12 00:37:16 UTC
bump
Zeroniss
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#8 - 2012-03-13 16:51:48 UTC
Great feedback guys, keep it coming in. We need more effective suggestions for crystals to get them fixed.

Also please throw some 'likes' on these posts and suggestions so they catch CCPs attention too :)
Ja'thaal Deathbringer
The Directionally Challenged
#9 - 2012-03-15 15:47:13 UTC
What about having a damage readout on your guns? Similar to that of a basic ammunition count, but either showing the crystal's damage percentage or showing their structural integrity? Also, if a group of crystals are all the same percent damaged (If they were in a group or all had the same amount of shots fired through them) I think they should be able to be stacked. That way you could reload them in the stack by percentage damage rather than having to manually reload them and regroup weapons.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#10 - 2012-03-15 17:38:40 UTC
Hmm. Only problem with an on-HUD display would be that they aren't all the same amount damaged, so you would still need to use the fitting tool or break group to identify which crystal was the low one.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Tikktokk Tokkzikk
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#11 - 2012-03-15 19:34:03 UTC
What about showing lowest damage to highest damage when stacked (E.G. 52-68%)?

(Not that I have a clue about laz0rs)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-03-15 22:15:11 UTC
Zeroniss wrote:
Great feedback guys, keep it coming in. We need more effective suggestions for crystals to get them fixed.

Also please throw some 'likes' on these posts and suggestions so they catch CCPs attention too :)

Should have bumped my thread. :P

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-03-15 22:44:07 UTC
I also don't know why crystals cannot be repaired?

I would settle with not seeing the damage if given the option to simply right-click and repair when docked for a modest ISK price-tag.
Noriko Mai
#14 - 2012-03-15 23:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
My suggestion is here

Kolya Medz wrote:
Crystals are substantially more efficient with regards to isk cost per shot than projectiles or any other faction/tech II ammo. Not knowing how many shots is a fair trade I think.

And the Drake should should have no shield damge indicator.

Katie Frost wrote:
I also don't know why crystals cannot be repaired?

I would settle with not seeing the damage if given the option to simply right-click and repair when docked for a modest ISK price-tag.

This will give you infinite ammo in systems/regions where you cann't buy it. It's not only about the price but also about availability.
You simply cann't buy your stuff everywhere.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2012-03-16 06:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Do a search next time.

Kolya Medz wrote:
Crystals are substantially more efficient with regards to isk cost per shot than projectiles or any other faction/tech II ammo. Not knowing how many shots is a fair trade I think.

The fair trade is being forced into doing only EM and thermal damage. There's no reason, for balance or otherwise, to not show frequency crystal damage.


Not to mention capacitor consumption...

Noriko Mai wrote:
This will give you infinite ammo in systems/regions where you cann't buy it. It's not only about the price but also about availability.
You simply cann't buy your stuff everywhere.


Infinite ammo is what T1 crystals are for... its just infinite semi-crappy ammo (sure radio is longer range than Scorch, but it does slightly less than half the damage, with 42% better tracking though)
Noriko Mai
#16 - 2012-03-16 15:56:37 UTC
Sorry for typo...
This will give you infinite ammo supply in systems/regions where you cann't buy it. It's not only about the price but also about availability.
You simply cann't buy your stuff everywhere.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Ja'thaal Deathbringer
The Directionally Challenged
#17 - 2012-03-19 07:43:24 UTC
Even out the damage rate on crystals, make it a set amount, allow for re-stacking for easy loading. I would really like to be able to re-stack crystals on my Absolution so I can change my ammo types.
Commissar Kate
Kesukka
#18 - 2012-04-17 20:32:55 UTC
Zeroniss wrote:
Ah I made a really bad joke in the title about laser crystals and their breaking.

Being serious though, this is a small, albeit annoying problem. Projectile and Charges count how many rounds of ammunition you have. Missiles count how many rounds of ammunition you have. Surely there should be a friendlier interface to see how much damage your laser crystals have?

Currently there are two ways that I know of to check if your crystals are damaged:

1. Undock in space, load the crystals into your gun, and hover over to record the percentage damage. A very difficult and tedious process, especially if you need to check multiple crystals.

2. Through the Contracts interface. Inconvenient if you are again dealing with any number of crystals at all (really, create a whole contract just to see their damage percentage?), not to mention that it is highly difficult to differentiate between multiple crystals that may have differing damage upon them.

This is further exacerbated when swapping crystals, where the system will often confuse itself between used and unused crystals and will mix the stacks up, thereby giving you odd breakage cycles on your crystals.

This becomes very problematic when a random crystal in a group of guns will break, thereby rendering the entire group unable to fire till you reload that one crystal manually (why can't Laser Crystals reload automatically like other ammunition?)

Proposal:

It would be a difficult task to show the percentage damage on each individuals crystal's tooltip (though this would be the ideal solution). Instead, please include a damage tab in the crystal's 'Show Info' tab so that it is atleast easier to tell when a crystal is damaged. If a column depicting the same is present in the assets tab or the 'View Contents' tab when looking at a ship, it would be very useful too.



This is something that has really bugged me for years, I'm no programmer but there must be something that makes this particularly hard to fix or CCP would have done something by now to sort this out.

I suppose frequency crystals could be a one shot per use like hybrid or projectile ammo but that would take away the uniqueness of the way lasers currently work.

-k8

My Fanclub
Torothanax
#19 - 2012-04-18 00:29:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Torothanax
Zeroniss wrote:
Currently there are two ways that I know of to check if your crystals are damaged:

1. Undock in space, load the crystals into your gun, and hover over to record the percentage damage. A very difficult and tedious process, especially if you need to check multiple crystals.

2. Through the Contracts interface. Inconvenient if you are again dealing with any number of crystals at all (really, create a whole contract just to see their damage percentage?), not to mention that it is highly difficult to differentiate between multiple crystals that may have differing damage upon them.
I haven't checked with weapons lasers, but I know if you load a crystal into a miner and then do a "show info" on the ammo it tells you how much damage the crystal has taken.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-04-18 00:37:12 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Actually I think it would be trivial to just superimpose a percentage over the crystal's inventory icon. Not doing so is simply lazy, OR the EVE code base so even more screwed up and funky then I had realized.


Yeah, is a nice idea, have the ammo readout code for crystals read instead as a percentage if possible. I more want it because it becomes even more annoying when you are changing ammo, they get swapped then figuring out what is at what, etc.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
12Next page