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Idea's for Local & Cloaking changes

Author
Zombo Brian
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-03-09 06:51:55 UTC
Well, ccp is right about that local definitely needs changing, covops, maybe, but only to get those nifty afk cloakers

I say make a special covops counter probe launcher with 5 minutes scan time and special probes or whatever
Rommel Rottweil
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-03-09 09:40:49 UTC
If cloakers can be scanned down in safespots then it creates a problem for the Super Caps pilots etc. I suspect some of them have safespots for their ships and fit cloaks (If they cant hide in a POS), they cannot dock up... yet

If this was the only solution then a Special probe or T2 Probes could be used, but then It would haveto be expensive ofc, have a long Scanning time, maybe 10min? and it would havto be visable in system, visable to all... The Afk'rs wouldnt notice it cause they are asleep, but pilots that are active would notice. If system has afk cloaked bots then they would log when probe appears, so you just need to drop a probe every now and then and no cloaky bots in system ;)

Maybe remove the ability to use probes while cloaked?

Few other crazy ideas posted here
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=912560#post91256


However I like the idea of showing gate activity in the local channel. Giving the Sov holder a bonus (Better intel) would be interesting too. But what should be written in local?
I think we must remember that we dont want a new feature that creates more lag/serverload

Maybe have simple messages/raports that only come 30sec after first gate activation and they include all ships jumped in the next 30sec.
Somthing like this:

Gate activation Raport
Incoming +3/+0/+8
Outgoing -0/-4/-5

(Friendly/neutral/Hostile in blue/gray/red)

Then if more ships are comming another report is brodcast in 30sec etc on 30sec intervals.

Maybe the Sov holder would get a Gate report showing (Friendly/neutral/Hostile) as above, but non sov would just get this

Gate activation Raport
Incoming +11
Outgoing -9


Maybe somthing like this would do 2 things, not clutter up local when large fleets fly in and allso reduce the load on the server/game

Idk, but wouldnt it still be cool to have local count? Maybe updated only every 120-300 sec. Just showing total number of pilots in system (docked and undocked).
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#43 - 2012-03-09 11:13:06 UTC
Rommel Rottweil wrote:
Maybe remove the ability to use probes while cloaked?

However I like the idea of showing gate activity in the local channel. Giving the Sov holder a bonus (Better intel) would be interesting too. But what should be written in local?


I found your ideas and concerns a little strange to be honest. Your main concern with cloak detection seems to be how it would impact Cap ships which aren't even built around the idea of cloaking, and then proceed to suggest probes don't work while cloaked which is a specific role for many CovOps ships. What?

As to what Local should show? Nothing that isn't typed there by a player! Gates aren't built nor controlled by Sov holders I see no reason why Gate use should automatically provide intel to them.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#44 - 2012-03-09 16:43:32 UTC
Xorv wrote:
As to what Local should show? Nothing that isn't typed there by a player! Gates aren't built nor controlled by Sov holders I see no reason why Gate use should automatically provide intel to them.
Unless you can demonstrate a reason why the gate builders should allow you to have intel, the gates giving it to you seems wrong.

What I could endorse, is a spy satellite orbiting the gate. This would be a target for enemies, obviously, but so long as it was not destroyed could report ship activity relative to the gate.
(Cloaked vessels could possibly be seen in that moment where they are forced to transition between gate cloak to onboard systems)

Keep in mind, being seen by the satellite can become a deliberate decoy for an ambush. A ship may want to be seen, in order to draw out defenders... or simply have people looking in too many places to figure out where they actually are.

The satellite should not be hard to kill, but should at least report on all vessels present, and highlight any vessel that does damage to it up to the point it is gone.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#45 - 2012-03-10 00:18:58 UTC
Nikk Narre wrote:
The satellite should not be hard to kill, but should at least report on all vessels present, and highlight any vessel that does damage to it up to the point it is gone.


That doesn't sound too bad just so long as the satellite can be killed fairly easily and doesn't have completely trivial costs to produce and deploy.

Also if being able to deploy a satellite is dependent on having sovereignty in the system, deploying Satellites in NPC Null should be dependent on high standings with controlling NPCs

Also probably shouldn't work at all in WH space.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-03-10 01:29:35 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Would the OP like to cite some links where CCP has stated that changes to local need to be made? I don't recall seeing anything that specific stated by CCP as of yet and if true I would like to read said statements and any ideas they might have.


Good point.

http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/csm_ccp_mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf

The bit about Cloak Hunters is on page 22

Change to local and discussion is found on page 26

Good ideas so far, keep them coming and try to keep it civil.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Rommel Rottweil
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-03-11 00:12:43 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Rommel Rottweil wrote:
Maybe remove the ability to use probes while cloaked?

However I like the idea of showing gate activity in the local channel. Giving the Sov holder a bonus (Better intel) would be interesting too. But what should be written in local?


I found your ideas and concerns a little strange to be honest. Your main concern with cloak detection seems to be how it would impact Cap ships which aren't even built around the idea of cloaking, and then proceed to suggest probes don't work while cloaked which is a specific role for many CovOps ships. What?

As to what Local should show? Nothing that isn't typed there by a player! Gates aren't built nor controlled by Sov holders I see no reason why Gate use should automatically provide intel to them.



Well you forget that justabout any ship can cloak, some have extended abilitys a.i. moving faster cloaked or even warping cloaked. Specialized Cloaking ships have these abilitys but basically then all cloaks work on the same principle.
All cloaking ships are the same, they can not be detected untill they decloak, get damadged by area effect weapons or if they get within 2500m of another collidable object.

If you can somhow detect one cloaker then you can detect all, regardless of the type of cloak.

I think that a lot of the negativity towards cloaking comes from afk cloakers. Guys that are using their precence in local as a deterrant for ppl to fly in that space even if they are afk. This is in a way an exploit. If cloakers can be detected somhow, even if its time consuming then it might address the issue.

I like cloaking ships and use them a lot.

Reason I mention Supercaps is that they cant be docked so they quite often are relying on cloak, haulers, ratters and many others do as well, but noone should really be afk 23/7..

CovOps cloaking while using probes, well like somone else mentioned: why should 2-way communication be avalable to probes and not Drones for example? Its not a big deal but its still makes sense?

Botters frequently use loggofski or safespot cloaking as soon as somthing shows up in local, removing local triggers that save them would be nice. Removing the ability to safespot cloak for hours on end would allso be nice.

I honestly dont know what would be the best idea, but posting here and brainstorming/shitstorming with other people maybe with a remote chance that a dev maybe reads somthing and is able to use somthing or even if they get a new idea from this and fix the issues then its all worth it. Hell dont think anyone would post here if it wasnt an issue.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#48 - 2012-03-11 01:00:05 UTC
Rommel Rottweil wrote:

Well you forget that justabout any ship can cloak, some have extended abilitys a.i. moving faster cloaked or even warping cloaked. Specialized Cloaking ships have these abilitys but basically then all cloaks work on the same principle.
All cloaking ships are the same, they can not be detected untill they decloak, get damadged by area effect weapons or if they get within 2500m of another collidable object.

If you can somhow detect one cloaker then you can detect all, regardless of the type of cloak.

I think that a lot of the negativity towards cloaking comes from afk cloakers. Guys that are using their precence in local as a deterrant for ppl to fly in that space even if they are afk. This is in a way an exploit. If cloakers can be detected somhow, even if its time consuming then it might address the issue.


I didn't forget that just about all ships can cloak, I just found it strange that your main concern was with a ship class that isn't specifically designed for using a cloak, while little regard is given by you to those ships that are largely redundant without cloaks, namely CovOps. All cloaks are not the same nor are the ships that use them, if that were so no one would ever fly a Force Recon, they'd just use Combat Recons.

Regarding probes: Probes are not drones, the comparison, especially in terms of gameplay just fails. The whole point of CovOps frigs is to gather intel while they themselves remain concealed. All CovOps ships take a big hit in terms of combat ability, yet you seem to want to take away the advantages in the information war, surprise, and concealment they gain for making that sacrifice. That doesn't seem balanced or make sense to me. Also, Probes themselves are not cloaked and using them often does give you away in WHs to anyone who uses a DScanner, which is to say any player with half a clue.

As to "AFK cloaking", it's been said a thousand times, in a thousand different ways but it just doesn't seem to sink in for some people... AFK cloaking is done as a direct response to the effect of Local Chat Intel, which breaks one of the principle reasons for using a cloak in the first place, that is to remain unseen whether that be for evasion or ambush. If you're serious about balancing cloaking in EVE and not just out to nerf it into oblivion you have to acknowledge the problem of Local Chat Intel.

Pretty much everyone here in this thread suggesting ideas on cloak detection are doing so on the assumption Local Chat Intel is removed or at least radically changed.
Rommel Rottweil
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2012-03-11 02:24:13 UTC
Cloaking
What do we want?
1. Get rid of afk cloakers
2. Get rid of cloaking bots
3.***
What dont we want?
1. We dont want cloakers to be more vaulnerable at gates that they are now
2. We basically dont want to nerf cloakers
3. We want players to have an edge when active vs being inactive
4.***

Like mentioned before then mayby making Cloaking eat cap or some sort of fuel might be a fix, however these solutions are easy to bypass/exploit imo.
Have a Probe solution, thats ok, but it should be easely possible to detect that somone is probing for the cloaker and do counter mesures. So if a pilot is cloked and active then he cant be cought, if he is cloaked and afk watching porn he should risk being found and killed. Hell if you want to go afk then get in a pos or dock up there are bloody stations everywhere now.

I was thinking maybe a 2-way approach.

Add a Probe that can scan down cloakers AND add a special module to decloak them.
Covert Scanner Probe, works like Combat Probe but only detects Cloaked Ships or Covert Cynos (Maybe add special sites for PVE players hehe). Covert Scanning Probes are special and due to the powerful and strange signal needed to detect covert ships then they are visable to all (like cyno) and can be warped to and destroyed.
When you finally probe down the Cloaker, you need to locat him. Warping to him will randomly put you within 40-50km away from the Cloaker. Now you need to decloak him, what do you do? Orbiting Interceptor?

Well Now the new ship comes to do its job, Tech2 Destroyer with a "special" (Lets call it a Decloaking Device/Launcher) module:
I have 2 ideas here:
1. Decloaking Bomb Launcher that drops Decloaking bombs, the launcher can drop a bomb every 10 sec and they take 5 sec before going off (bombs do not travel, they are stationary when deployed regardless of ship velocity), bombs do 10? EM Damadge to everything within 30km. They do not go off if there is a collidable structure within the blast radius (do not work if gates or stations are within the radius).
2. Decloaking Device fitted in high slot that works similar to the Warp Disruption Field Generator (WDFG), it dosnt prevent warping but instead emmits 30km range pulses at the end of every 15 sec cycle that do 10?EM damadge and decloakes everything within the effected radius. Same thing here, cannot be activated within range of collidable structures.

As with the WDFG, when the 'Special' module is active then the vessel recives several negative effects. Higher Sig, nerfed AB and MWD speed. Allso it donst work in lowsec or empire.
AND most importantly, Destroyer with Decloaking Device/Launcher can not mount a cloaking device.. THEY CAN NOT CLOAK (Decloak Module uses up the Cloak Slot).

Pros:
-Affects 0.0 space only.
-As I see it, this would allow afk, inactive cloakers and covert Cynos to be probed. Chances are very slim to find a Cov Cyno, would probably need intel that one was up in the area or just pure luck if one is active when you scan.
-Active cloakers can easely evade probers by bouncing safe, planets etc. or just wait untill ships show up on scan or start hunting them and then warp off flipping the bird (decloaking in warpoff).
-Since the Probes are easy to detect then scaning for cloakers in hostile space is very dangerous, going to enemy home system to try and detect that cloaking titan would probably result in hostiles huning the proaber.
-The Decloaking Device has a delay after being activated so the Cloakers do have a small window to get away.
-The Decloaking Device is not very effective around Gate or Station.
-Cloakers can play smart and cloak up in a anomaly or somthing and go afk, however when its compleated then

Cons:
This would make gatecamps more effective against cloakers. But if you want to cover a gate with 8+ T2 specialist Destroyers like this then you possibly could. But hell if you deploy 8+ guys just to detect some cloakers then you deserve to find them tbfh lol

This idea handicaps the Hunters a lot, but after trying somthing like this and seeing it work ingame without being OP then it could be boosted in small incriments and balanced to work quite well I think.
Rommel Rottweil
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-03-11 02:27:47 UTC

Local

What do we want?
1. We want people to think
2. We want people to work to get kills
3. We want people to work at surviving
What dont we want?
1. We dont want Local to be the best intel channel
2. We dont want to make life easy for bots
3.

Gates were not built by Sov holders.
But lets say for argument same that the gates emit a special signal that sensor on all ships pick up and the sensors in your ship analyse this signal and come up with a "Gate Activation Raport" for your convinience.
In systems with TCU then a special sensor in the TCU instantly detects the friendly/neutral/hostile status of all vessels entering/leaving system and rebrodcasts this to all Corp/Alliance ships.
And finally in empire, Concord or facton vessels or maybe the gate guns (who knows big brother is watching) monitor all traffic on gates and do a general broadcast of all pilots entering or leaving each system thus giving you a compleat list of all pilots in system instantly in the Local channel!

Call me crazy but personally want to make botter life harder, however not for the roamers or even carebears.
I honestly think that for all pilots that are active then nerfing local intel ability would be awsome.


Suggestions:
1. I think local channel is ok in empire, however I would prefere if it was Constellation channel in lowsec and 0.0. People in diffrent systems in the same constellation could chat if they are lonely and Intel would be nerfed with this, partially at least. Botters would log off as soon as somone appeared in the constellation Twisted
2. As suggested before regarding the "Gate Activation Report" then it could be implimented as well seperate or in combination with #1.
3. Everyone invincable in local, Would be very nice. Local comunication still avalable (but not a good idea cause it gives away your position).

Idea #1 would be simple to impliment and it would defenatly nerf the Intel usage of the Local channel and it would allso butthurt botters. It would be a great first step to nerf the Local Intel Channel!

I dont like Local Timer Delay, ai. people jumping in would have a delay before appearing in local, only benefits Roamers but does nothing for Local population: Bad idea.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#51 - 2012-03-11 02:51:16 UTC
Rommel Rottweil wrote:
Cloaking
What do we want?
1. Get rid of afk cloakers


Who's this "we" you're talking about?

There is no universal all inclusive "we" in EVE that agree on game mechanics and design.

A lot of the people in this thread don't care about AFK cloakers, with Local gone it's a non factor. It's like worrying about players AFK in POS shield or docked in a station.

Rommel Rottweil wrote:
Cloaking
Local
What do we want?


All it's intel functions gone, removed, finished, dead, over, done! ..but for some reason that wasn't in your list? ...despite being what "we" want.
Rommel Rottweil
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-03-11 02:53:00 UTC
Xorv wrote:

I didn't forget that just about all ships can cloak, I just found it strange that your main concern was with a ship class that isn't specifically designed for using a cloak, while little regard is given by you to those ships that are largely redundant without cloaks, namely CovOps. All cloaks are not the same nor are the ships that use them, if that were so no one would ever fly a Force Recon, they'd just use Combat Recons.

Regarding probes: Probes are not drones, the comparison, especially in terms of gameplay just fails. The whole point of CovOps frigs is to gather intel while they themselves remain concealed. All CovOps ships take a big hit in terms of combat ability, yet you seem to want to take away the advantages in the information war, surprise, and concealment they gain for making that sacrifice. That doesn't seem balanced or make sense to me. Also, Probes themselves are not cloaked and using them often does give you away in WHs to anyone who uses a DScanner, which is to say any player with half a clue.

As to "AFK cloaking", it's been said a thousand times, in a thousand different ways but it just doesn't seem to sink in for some people... AFK cloaking is done as a direct response to the effect of Local Chat Intel, which breaks one of the principle reasons for using a cloak in the first place, that is to remain unseen whether that be for evasion or ambush. If you're serious about balancing cloaking in EVE and not just out to nerf it into oblivion you have to acknowledge the problem of Local Chat Intel.

Pretty much everyone here in this thread suggesting ideas on cloak detection are doing so on the assumption Local Chat Intel is removed or at least radically changed.


I beg to differ, All cloaks are the same, they HIDE you! Some of them just allowe you to do more stuff while you are hiddenCool

My main concern isnt Supers, Its all cloakers. You are however somwhat hung up on Covops and I get the impression that all other ships that cloak are less worthy. Prot Cloak has huge penaltys and still justabout every ship has been fitted with one at one time or another.
You have a point regarding the Probes gameplay wise, but I can understand the other view as well. Maybe eve isnt logical but the point was logical regarding 2-way comunication betwen Probes vs Drones, you must admit as much P
Im not saying nerf the probers, I was just making a point and I liked the logic.
Having Covops decloaking to get results or to move probes wouldnt be so bad would it LOL

Even though Local was removed then people would still go afk cloaked, why not let them be a target as well? If somone is willing to put in the effort to hunt down a hauler, Bot, Super or whatever. Let him find the cloaker if the Pilot is in hostile space cloaked and doing somthing else (grinding lvl4 in empire, waching tv or whatever). If you cant afford to loose it dont undock in it ( and dont stay cloaked and afk in it eather).

I would really like Covert Probes, Cloak Hunters and to have constelation chat in lowsec and 0.0
Rommel Rottweil
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2012-03-11 03:00:55 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Rommel Rottweil wrote:
Cloaking
What do we want?
1. Get rid of afk cloakers


Who's this "we" you're talking about?

There is no universal all inclusive "we" in EVE that agree on game mechanics and design.

A lot of the people in this thread don't care about AFK cloakers, with Local gone it's a non factor. It's like worrying about players AFK in POS shield or docked in a station.

Rommel Rottweil wrote:
Cloaking
Local
What do we want?


All it's intel functions gone, removed, finished, dead, over, done! ..but for some reason that wasn't in your list? ...despite being what "we" want.


LOL what are you trolling?

In we I am certainly not talking about you. I was mainly thinking in terms of me and the OP. Well and maybe some other people that are interested and could possibly agrea.

Do I haveto point out the obvoius just for you?

Noone is worrying btw. Exept maybe botters.. Hmmmm
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-03-11 06:13:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerrick Palivorn
Rommel Rottweil wrote:
Cloaking
What do we want?
1. Get rid of afk cloakers
2. Get rid of cloaking bots
3.***
What dont we want?
1. We dont want cloakers to be more vaulnerable at gates that they are now
2. We basically dont want to nerf cloakers
3. We want players to have an edge when active vs being inactive
4.***

Like mentioned before then mayby making Cloaking eat cap or some sort of fuel might be a fix, however these solutions are easy to bypass/exploit imo.
Have a Probe solution, thats ok, but it should be easely possible to detect that somone is probing for the cloaker and do counter mesures. So if a pilot is cloked and active then he cant be cought, if he is cloaked and afk watching **** he should risk being found and killed. Hell if you want to go afk then get in a pos or dock up there are bloody stations everywhere now.

I was thinking maybe a 2-way approach.

Add a Probe that can scan down cloakers AND add a special module to decloak them.
Covert Scanner Probe, works like Combat Probe but only detects Cloaked Ships or Covert Cynos (Maybe add special sites for PVE players hehe). Covert Scanning Probes are special and due to the powerful and strange signal needed to detect covert ships then they are visable to all (like cyno) and can be warped to and destroyed.
When you finally probe down the Cloaker, you need to locat him. Warping to him will randomly put you within 40-50km away from the Cloaker. Now you need to decloak him, what do you do? Orbiting Interceptor?

Well Now the new ship comes to do its job, Tech2 Destroyer with a "special" (Lets call it a Decloaking Device/Launcher) module:
I have 2 ideas here:
1. Decloaking Bomb Launcher that drops Decloaking bombs, the launcher can drop a bomb every 10 sec and they take 5 sec before going off (bombs do not travel, they are stationary when deployed regardless of ship velocity), bombs do 10? EM Damadge to everything within 30km. They do not go off if there is a collidable structure within the blast radius (do not work if gates or stations are within the radius).
2. Decloaking Device fitted in high slot that works similar to the Warp Disruption Field Generator (WDFG), it dosnt prevent warping but instead emmits 30km range pulses at the end of every 15 sec cycle that do 10?EM damadge and decloakes everything within the effected radius. Same thing here, cannot be activated within range of collidable structures.

As with the WDFG, when the 'Special' module is active then the vessel recives several negative effects. Higher Sig, nerfed AB and MWD speed. Allso it donst work in lowsec or empire.
AND most importantly, Destroyer with Decloaking Device/Launcher can not mount a cloaking device.. THEY CAN NOT CLOAK (Decloak Module uses up the Cloak Slot).

Pros:
-Affects 0.0 space only.
-As I see it, this would allow afk, inactive cloakers and covert Cynos to be probed. Chances are very slim to find a Cov Cyno, would probably need intel that one was up in the area or just pure luck if one is active when you scan.
-Active cloakers can easely evade probers by bouncing safe, planets etc. or just wait untill ships show up on scan or start hunting them and then warp off flipping the bird (decloaking in warpoff).
-Since the Probes are easy to detect then scaning for cloakers in hostile space is very dangerous, going to enemy home system to try and detect that cloaking titan would probably result in hostiles huning the proaber.
-The Decloaking Device has a delay after being activated so the Cloakers do have a small window to get away.
-The Decloaking Device is not very effective around Gate or Station.
-Cloakers can play smart and cloak up in a anomaly or somthing and go afk, however when its compleated then

Cons:
This would make gatecamps more effective against cloakers. But if you want to cover a gate with 8+ T2 specialist Destroyers like this then you possibly could. But hell if you deploy 8+ guys just to detect some cloakers then you deserve to find them tbfh lol

This idea handicaps the Hunters a lot, but after trying somthing like this and seeing it work ingame without being OP then it could be boosted in small incriments and balanced to work quite well I think.


This is all well and good but it doesn't take into account a large portion of the eve community.

Take everything in this suggestion and look at it solely from the point of view of someone who lives in W-Space. This seems broken and over the top. Cloaking as a tool to safe up and leave for a bit, maybe an hour or more, should remain. With local modified/removed the effects of afk cloaking is removed completely, so this is considered a non issue in my book. People have emergencies and they shouldn't be punished if they suddenly have to leave the keyboard for a few hours and forget to logoff. It's happened to me, I warp to a safe already cloaked up, hit the button to logoff, and come back 8 hours later with the game still running. All I'm saying is that the whole community should be considered when thinking of a solution to the current issues.

While I disagree with you on some of the principles of your approach I'm glad that we can discuss it without flaming each other to much.

As far as 2 way communication goes I think that it should be done in such a way that it is easier to detect the cloaker as it pings there signature. Probes are an information device that requires a signal, so it should make sense that thery would be more vulnerable to detection while using them actively. That way it really does become more of a cat and mouse, rather than if the cloaker sits still they get ganked.

Mass and signature radius should be considered when taking into account when determining how well cloaked a ship becomes when they have one equiped. Conversely Sensor strength and signature resolution should play in as factors as to how well a ship can detect a cloaked vessel.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-03-11 06:25:17 UTC
As far as goals go this is more of what I was considering, keeping in mind that both will be applied at the same time.

Local:
- Modify local so that it is not used as an intel tool, this will need to be replaced by a seperate means to actively gather intel in a system. Not involving probes.

This will remove the need for afk cloaking as the cloaker would have to be active to get the same effect that they are getting now.

Cloaking:
- Do not eliminate the ability for cloaked ships in safe-spots to be non dectectable. They are so far away from sensors that any large scan should read them as nothing more than random noise.
- Active cloakers should run the risk of detection. Because of the nature of there actions makes it easier for enemies to detect there presence.
- Larger ships should be harder to hide, while smaller ships have little issues avoiding detection.
- Any detection system developed will have an effect on W-Space, but the less impact the better, please keep this in mind when thinking of solutions to the problems.

I'm sure I am forgetting somethings and I will add them as I think of them.

This is where I think the biggest split between the community is, a lot of us want a change, but we have different goals concerning the outcome of the changes.

To continue this discussion would people please state the desired results of their ideas (goals) before moving onto the idea.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#56 - 2012-03-11 08:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
Rommel Rottweil wrote:
You have a point regarding the Probes gameplay wise, but I can understand the other view as well. Maybe eve isnt logical but the point was logical regarding 2-way comunication betwen Probes vs Drones, you must admit as much


There's game lore that gameplay mechanics is then based on, then there's game lore created after the fact to explain game mechanics. The 2 way communication for drones falls into the latter. There would be serious balance issues if you could use drones to attack and repair while the drone ship remained cloaked, that's why you can't cloak and control drones, not because the lore says you can't. Probes are an entirely different matter
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#57 - 2012-03-11 08:07:17 UTC
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:
As far as goals go this is more of what I was considering, keeping in mind that both will be applied at the same time.

Local:
- Modify local so that it is not used as an intel tool, this will need to be replaced by a seperate means to actively gather intel in a system. Not involving probes.

This will remove the need for afk cloaking as the cloaker would have to be active to get the same effect that they are getting now.

Cloaking:
- Do not eliminate the ability for cloaked ships in safe-spots to be non dectectable. They are so far away from sensors that any large scan should read them as nothing more than random noise.
- Active cloakers should run the risk of detection. Because of the nature of there actions makes it easier for enemies to detect there presence.
- Larger ships should be harder to hide, while smaller ships have little issues avoiding detection.
- Any detection system developed will have an effect on W-Space, but the less impact the better, please keep this in mind when thinking of solutions to the problems.


This is something I can get behind and support.



Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-03-11 11:59:00 UTC
Cloaking is fine. If you're scared by cloakers, don't leave high-sec.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Asudem
Black Spear.
#59 - 2012-03-11 13:55:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Asudem
Local is a nice intel tool and it should be replaced with DScan options that allows you the check your system for danger. Autoupdating DScan and a customizeable filter would do the job/replace local meaningful, IMHO.


Miss Whippy wrote:
Cloaking is fine. If you're scared by cloakers, don't leave high-sec.


+1. A Cloak hunter would be nice, but it really needs to be balanced well and please consider the points I mentioned in the other thread. Alternativly if there are cloak disrupting bubbles (or if bubbles would get this additional effect) or if heavy interdictures would be able to load a script that makes their bubble to a decloaking bubbly, it would be fine for me.

In return, covert ops vessels could use some less align time. Twisted
annab
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-03-11 15:42:15 UTC
I run cloaked ships mainly transports and recons.

Heres my idea for the cloak issues is make the system of intel cost. Its free at the monment but in 0.0 its ment to be unexplored space nothing set up

My idea

High sec

Same as now.



Low se

Ships disapper after 5min-20min (depends on the sec) cloaked or not. Unless you have a starbase in the system. Cloaked ships are seeable in loacl for 20mins if you have a station.

0.0 se

Outposts are classed as having starbase netgear
Outposts can have and decloaker addon but the addon blocks you from having a jumpbridge bloaker. Why no jumpbridge if you get both up the badies will never take the system.

Deals with the afk problem. There is no need for a hunter ships as they will boost to camp too much and don't deal with the afk problem.