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T2 cruise missiles - some general questions
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Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
#21 - 2012-02-06 23:43:47 UTC
I personally wouldn't bother with T2/faction ammo in PVE with the exception of faction lasers and T2 torpedoes.
SexTrader
LOst BrotherhoOd
#22 - 2012-02-07 01:18:13 UTC
I also use strictly T1. Can't be bothered switching out ammo for BS,Cruiser etc. For me, the time difference between T1 and T2 is minimal.
Radiant Infinity
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-02-07 09:20:01 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Radiant Infinity wrote:

Wouldn't 2 Painters and 3 Rigors be overkill? I don't want to shoot frigs with Furies, I'll be using drones on them. My thinking (or hoping) is that 4 BCSs put out enough volley damage to one-shot BCs, while the RoF rig in combination with the 2 Painters will increase dps applied to cruisers enough to kill them with from 1 to 3 shots.

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh. Volley damage doesn't mean a lot if most of your damage isn't hitting the target. There are two main factors that determine how much damage missiles do, target sig size and target speed. Basically, if the missile explosion is bigger than the ship or if the ship can out-run the explosion, the missile does less than 100% damage. The formulas are: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=901280

So...
A cruiser has around a ~200m sig size. A Fury missile with all skills at V has an explosion radius of 412.5. 200/412.5 = 48.5% of your damage hits the target. If you slap on three Rigor Is, the Fury explosion radius drops to 253m. 200/253 = 79% of your damage hits the target. Add in a 30% TP to increase the target's siz size and that becomes (200 * 1.3) / 253 or 260/253 = 103%, which is capped at 100% missile damage.

The target's speed will also reduce the damage that missiles do. It's a bit more complicated to compute, so I'm not going to give an example. However, the target's sig size does affect this calculation, so Rigors and TPs will make a difference on fast ships.

In your case, if you're going to use two TPs, then go with 2xRigor and 1xFlare rigs.

Finally, Fury does more raw damage than T1 or CN ammo. Switching between Fury and T1 ammo takes time which lowers your DPS, so anything you can do to make Fury work on cruisers is a good idea. Generally speaking, use Fury on BS, BC, and non-elite cruisers in missions *if* you fit rigor/flare/TPs.

Awesome, thanks!
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-02-07 13:00:07 UTC
Jack Corigan wrote:
Precision are not useless, they are just a lot more of a niche.

So niché that there are virtually no realistic situations where using them is a good idea.
Oh wait, I basically just defined "useless" there didn't I?
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-02-09 01:45:45 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Is that extra paper DPS worth it compared to 3 Rigors that don't penalize each other boosting your accuracy?


I don't think it is. I was just pointing out that there is certainly a good reason for 4 BCU/T2 RoF rig setups.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#26 - 2012-02-09 21:15:15 UTC
Another +1 to using CN Launchers and plain old T1 missles.
Hormus
Veria Ltd.
#27 - 2012-03-10 16:02:46 UTC
I would like some advice on the fury/precision differences.
I fitted a CNR with 7 T2 cruise launchers and T2 ammo for L4 missions (without rigors, but "3% decrease in factor of target's velocity for all missiles" implant.
I was greatly surprised when I found out that precision missiles consistently do significantly more damage to NPC battleships than the fury ones!
The damage reported is about 1680 per volley (or 240 for 1) for the precision missiles and about 1400 (200) for the fury missiles.
I have double- and triple- checked everything I could think of, but nothing seems out of order...

EFT reports that fury does more damage for this fit, as could be expected. But in fact the opposite happens! And against BS, not cruisers or frigates which could be explained.

Has this happened to anyone else? Can anyone give a clue to what is happening? I have most missile skills at lvl4, if that is of any significance.
Alara IonStorm
#28 - 2012-03-10 16:16:12 UTC
Hormus wrote:
I would like some advice on the fury/precision differences.
I fitted a CNR with 7 T2 cruise launchers and T2 ammo for L4 missions (without rigors, but "3% decrease in factor of target's velocity for all missiles" implant.
I was greatly surprised when I found out that precision missiles consistently do significantly more damage to NPC battleships than the fury ones!
The damage reported is about 1680 per volley (or 240 for 1) for the precision missiles and about 1400 (200) for the fury missiles.
I have double- and triple- checked everything I could think of, but nothing seems out of order...

EFT reports that fury does more damage for this fit, as could be expected. But in fact the opposite happens! And against BS, not cruisers or frigates which could be explained.

Has this happened to anyone else? Can anyone give a clue to what is happening? I have most missile skills at lvl4, if that is of any significance.

I use a SNI with Painter and Lvl 4 in both Accuracy Skills w/o Implants and actually did some checking at my Damage Reports Vs the individual NPC Battlships Shield Resists and found that my Furies do the maximum Damage Possible per hit almost every time when in range of my Meta 3 Painter and near full otherwise. What is more against Hull they give me the full Damage shown in EFT.

Since I get full volley which is higher then the volley from precision their is no way that they can do more Damage.

I use 3 Rigor Rigs to get this effect. With said Rigs you should get the same.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#29 - 2012-03-10 16:17:45 UTC
Hormus wrote:
I would like some advice on the fury/precision differences.
I fitted a CNR with 7 T2 cruise launchers and T2 ammo for L4 missions (without rigors, but "3% decrease in factor of target's velocity for all missiles" implant.
I was greatly surprised when I found out that precision missiles consistently do significantly more damage to NPC battleships than the fury ones!
The damage reported is about 1680 per volley (or 240 for 1) for the precision missiles and about 1400 (200) for the fury missiles.
I have double- and triple- checked everything I could think of, but nothing seems out of order...

EFT reports that fury does more damage for this fit, as could be expected. But in fact the opposite happens! And against BS, not cruisers or frigates which could be explained.

Has this happened to anyone else? Can anyone give a clue to what is happening? I have most missile skills at lvl4, if that is of any significance.


Yeah, that one is easy. Your damage is being reduced by explosion radius compared to signature radius of your targets. Your implant won't help there either. Basically, you'll need rigors and/or painters to make Fury work period (except against select huge-sig Guristas BSs).
Hormus
Veria Ltd.
#30 - 2012-03-10 16:21:16 UTC
You're saying that I need rigors to do full damage with furys against a BS?Shocked
Their explosion radius right now is 467m. How much should it be for a full hit against BS?
Alara IonStorm
#31 - 2012-03-10 16:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Hormus wrote:
You're saying that I need rigors to do full damage with furys against a BS?Shocked
Their explosion radius right now is 467m. How much should it be for a full hit against BS?

Mine sits currently at 270.215m

Removing the 3 T1 Rigors from my SNI with my skills in EFT shows it at 440m. I have one skill level higher then you with Guided Missile Precision IV. Without it I get 467.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#32 - 2012-03-10 16:33:43 UTC
Hormus wrote:
You're saying that I need rigors to do full damage with furys against a BS?Shocked
Their explosion radius right now is 467m. How much should it be for a full hit against BS?


Depends on the BS. But for instance, a Gist Malakim has a 350m radius so unless you can get your explosion radius down that far or paint him up a bit you'll see reduced damage. Chruker has all your possible missions battleships if you care to browse.

IIRC, Pith Eliminators and Exterminators are about the only missions BSs with a sig large enough to not require rigors or painters for full damage (assuming max skills).
Hormus
Veria Ltd.
#33 - 2012-03-10 16:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Hormus
hmmm... thank you.
I'll try with various combinations of target painters to find how many rigors I should use. Thanks again.
Alara IonStorm
#34 - 2012-03-10 16:43:49 UTC
Hormus wrote:
hmmm... thank you.
I'll try with various combinations of target painters to find how many rigors I should use. Thanks again.

I use 3. It allows you to skip Precision Missiles and use Higher damage Cruise Missiles on Cruisers and Destroyer. Dessies in Painter Range pop in 1 Volley while T1 Missiles do more Damage to Cruisers with 3 Rigs then Precision. Their is no real large difference Fury and T1 for Battlecruisers so if I was shooting Battleships last I go Fury, Cruisers / Dessies T1. Battleships receive significantly more Damage from Fury Missiles. Frigate get the Drone Treatment.

Precision was useful on my CCC Raven and were excellent for Cruisers but with Rigor Rigs on my SNI I find that they no longer have use.
Unimaginative Guy
Dutch Squad
#35 - 2012-03-11 05:08:35 UTC
t2 cruises would be insanely useful for WH PvE. Minimal mobs so TP is eas, allowing you to get an extra 200 dps on those battleships and still do decently on the cruisers if you got rigors. Also lets you shoot 70km+ which is nice
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