Warfare & Tactics

Says you, how risky is it setting in a station with your market alt making big isk? How risky is it infiltrating a corp ripping them off and flying away?

High sec incursion (especially vanguards) have far too little risk for the massive reward they get with a decent fleet.

Either nerf highsec incursions payout, or make it harder to farm them for a solid week before moving to another region.


One way to do this: End the incursion 24 hours after the mothership spawns. That or make the reward for the mothership site worth enough for people to break whatever deal they have about not running it, making them spend more time running from incursion to incursion, decreasing the earnings.

Think incursions are too high reward for too low risk? You can do something about this yourself, you know.

Watch the incursion channel. Look at people's fits. Wait until someone posts a fit with many hundreds of millions of ISK worth of faction mods. Vanguard runners will often have faction stasis webs, faction damage mods, and faction damage resist mods. Go get a couple of your buddies in tier 3 BCs and gank them, and have someone ready to pick up the loot.

Together with people doing incursions in high sec ;-)
They are barely worth the trouble now already. But I agree, they are indeed very, very safe to fly. The risk involved doing vgs are not about losing your ship, but about wasting time.

I have only tried an incursion once so my idea might be useless - but here goes.

Motherships just needs to be on a timer that removes all drops and lp from it after a certain time.

CCP could easily make it so the blueprint only has a chance of dropping if it's killed in the first 24hours (or whatever is needed) after it spawns.

Printing isk with almost no real risk. Not only do you get isk per hour that's better than most sources of income in lowsec/0.0, but you get LP on top of it. It's not really that hard to understand.

Personally, I don't give a flying **** about Incursion runners. The more money furry bears have, the juicier the mods on their ships. That way when I gank them with a fleet of 10 suicide Tornados I get paid out more by the drop.

People need to stop whining and think outside the box.

Those ppl whining about incursion payout usually don't know what they are talking about. Getting above 100m/hour constantly (!) is very hard and only achievable in certain circumstances. You need a perfect fleet setup, 3 highsec incursions present (ever tried to do incursions when just 1 highsec incursion is up? lol) and no competing fleets for the type of vanguards you're after, just to name a few. As someone already mentioned you don't count in the time you spend for fleet forming, travelling your ships dozens of jumps to the next Incursion spawn etc, so what you basically do is telling lots of unreflected bs.

There are enough ways to earn 100m per hour or more EVERYWHERE. You can make that money in 0.0 (Sanctums/Havens), lowsec (FW-Missions) or Highsec Incursions. You can make way more money by trading btw.

I am not against tweaking incursions payout, they definitely need that. But please stop whining about Incursion profits, try achieving more than 100m per hour constantly (!) by doing incursions instead. We'll see what song you sing then.

Proliferation of supercapitals happened long before incursions were even around, and has more to do with the 0.0 metagame and drone alloys more than anything else. Also, LOL at the idea that PL gets its supers from running missions.



This was the argument against every single balancing change ever. No one in this game is afraid of ruining it for others, in fact, that's often the whole point. Time and time again, the developers and the players have rejected the idea that certain gameplay styles or gameplay mechanics should be viewed in a vaccuum. Just because its fun, easy, or preferred does not mean it should be immune from being judged in the context of the game as a whole. Threatening to cancel your subscription over a change to your isk-making is not a particularly convincing argument to other players, and the devs have shown they're not intimidated by it either.


PS. hope to be running vanguards with you in a couple weeks, hope ccp hasn't nerfed them by then. Good Fellas for life!

As I've recently dabbled in Incursions myself, I'll share some of my experience on the matter

There are several factors in play when determining payout or ISK per hour. The two most important ones are the number of players participating (in the constellation or VG system in particular) and the level of organization employed. In regards to the second factor, in my experience, most people run incursions in pick up fleets which take time to form. You do not begin to receive ISK the second you enter an Incursion infested constellation, more so, I've seen people link their decent fits in a popular incursion channel for more than an hour before they got accepted or gave up. While it's true that better organized groups/corporations/alliances can and do get a fleet set up faster, that is only to be admired, encouraged and rewarded. This is an MMO game where cooperation and good organization (should) provide better results

Now, to the fabled 150M ISK per hour-risk free players-turned-cash-printing-machines. When all of the above mentioned (and other) conditions apply in the most beneficial way, with the best level of organization, ship fits, player skills, downtime between sites reduced to the bare minimum, short (or non existent) bio breaks, local numbers low etc. then and only then will a person receive 150M ISK per hour. As soon as you start chipping away at those conditions, for example maybe it's crowded and you have to contest every second site, or suddenly both of your basilisks decide their GFs need spanking or whatever, that fabled number 150M will drop. Severely. Not just down to 120M or 100M, but lower, the more "common" your fleet becomes

Now, be fair. Don't lie to yourself and others when claiming that every damn noobie in his mael or abaddon makes 150M per hour

Personally, I think that PvE wise, Incursions are the best thing that happened to EVE so far. Compared to mining, running missions, ratting belts or plexing, they are the most fun thing to do when I need ISK (I haven't run sleeper sites so I can't compare anything with those)

With all that said, I do think Incursions need some tweaking. Spawn waves could vary more, VG sites should pay a bit less. If low and null sec rewards were scaled up and other HiSec PvE content was redesigned so that it wasn't so mind numbingly boring, I'd even propose making Incursions spawn somewhat less frequently, giving them a more uncommon, eventish feel.