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PERFECT **** STORM

First post
Author
Glistening Bravado
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-03-09 21:40:27 UTC
Mintrolio wrote:


let me drop character for a second and bear with me - THIS NEEDS DISCUSSION.


Oh why did you ruin this for me, Mintrolio.
FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2012-03-09 22:12:10 UTC
roleplaying is gay
FOl2TY8
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2012-03-09 22:12:29 UTC
mlmp
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#24 - 2012-03-09 23:24:37 UTC
Zixie Draco wrote:

Dude...you're not doing it right..



^^^^QFT^^^

There can be only ONE!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#25 - 2012-03-10 03:53:55 UTC
Can you wire me, multi-thousands from your company?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-03-12 05:38:59 UTC
Macon Chalaise wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Mintrollo - you do realize that your making yourself look like a 3 year old right?


TBH, plenty of people who started or complained in a "boo hoo trebor spammed his campaign" thread look like a 3 year olds.

Mintrolio can't win the personality prize now no matter what happens.

The goofy and occasionally amusing all caps badposter persona is gone.

He indicates he wants to be taken seriously by talking out of character. Fair enough.

He indicates that we should take him extra seriously because he runs a multi-million dollar software company. (Relevance?)

Then he threatens CCP with lawyers...

He may need new lawyers if he thinks that the EULA is a legal obligation in anything like the same way as "killing people is illegal when it is not in the defense of self or others or ones property or others." (Yes, I live in Texas.)

The EULA is an agreement between CCP and the customer. It's THEIR EULA, mhmm.

The best choice, imo, is to NOT be so vigilant and so ready to be offended in the first place. If you feel badly and angry about this it is PURELY by YOUR choice. I just deleted the emails and moved on.

Another answer to this problem would be to report the spam if one feels it is such and let CCP deal with it. (They already did and said limited campaign spam is allowed.)

You received in game emails campaigning at election time. Who cares? As Malcanis said, reflecting thousands of years of the same sentiment, it must be nice that this is the most important thing in some people's lives that they have the time and inclination to be SO angry and SO upset about something that doesn't even qualify as a fart in a tornado.

Trebor sending a round or two of election campaign spam doesn't matter a rat's ass in the long run.

Why can't people save all this for something that actually matters to the game?

Lawyers? Really? For a minor EULA complaint? REALLY?Blink

minor EULA violation is still a EULA violation. The only reason CCP gets away with it is because they understand that it's simply not cost effective to sue them for when they violate their own EULA. A GM once forced me to edit certain words out of my bio. I contacted a lawyer in the USA and even thou I live extremely close to their Atlanta office it would still cost me a few hundred dollars to sue them for violating my freedom of speech rights. I might get that money back when I win the case but I simply don't have the cash to take that risk. The law is on my side but at the end of the day money talks more than civil law does.
Macon Chalaise
VNM Biological Survey Corps
#27 - 2012-03-12 13:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Macon Chalaise
Omega Flames wrote:
Macon Chalaise wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Mintrollo - you do realize that your making yourself look like a 3 year old right?


TBH, plenty of people who started or complained in a "boo hoo trebor spammed his campaign" thread look like a 3 year olds.

Mintrolio can't win the personality prize now no matter what happens.

The goofy and occasionally amusing all caps badposter persona is gone.

He indicates he wants to be taken seriously by talking out of character. Fair enough.

He indicates that we should take him extra seriously because he runs a multi-million dollar software company. (Relevance?)

Then he threatens CCP with lawyers...

He may need new lawyers if he thinks that the EULA is a legal obligation in anything like the same way as "killing people is illegal when it is not in the defense of self or others or ones property or others." (Yes, I live in Texas.)

The EULA is an agreement between CCP and the customer. It's THEIR EULA, mhmm.

The best choice, imo, is to NOT be so vigilant and so ready to be offended in the first place. If you feel badly and angry about this it is PURELY by YOUR choice. I just deleted the emails and moved on.

Another answer to this problem would be to report the spam if one feels it is such and let CCP deal with it. (They already did and said limited campaign spam is allowed.)

You received in game emails campaigning at election time. Who cares? As Malcanis said, reflecting thousands of years of the same sentiment, it must be nice that this is the most important thing in some people's lives that they have the time and inclination to be SO angry and SO upset about something that doesn't even qualify as a fart in a tornado.

Trebor sending a round or two of election campaign spam doesn't matter a rat's ass in the long run.

Why can't people save all this for something that actually matters to the game?

Lawyers? Really? For a minor EULA complaint? REALLY?Blink

minor EULA violation is still a EULA violation. The only reason CCP gets away with it is because they understand that it's simply not cost effective to sue them for when they violate their own EULA. A GM once forced me to edit certain words out of my bio. I contacted a lawyer in the USA and even thou I live extremely close to their Atlanta office it would still cost me a few hundred dollars to sue them for violating my freedom of speech rights. I might get that money back when I win the case but I simply don't have the cash to take that risk. The law is on my side but at the end of the day money talks more than civil law does.


More than a few game companies, including Blizzard and Bioware, censor and control what players say in chat, put in their forum posts and their character information such as bios and names. MMOs are not havens for free speech any more than movie theaters are.

I am not a lawyer so I am wondering: What are the areas in which this lawyer practices and what did they tell you was the basis for pursuing your suit?

P.S. A quote of what words they wanted you to remove should be perfectly permissible as long as you say no more than "this is the text in question: [INSERT TEXT HERE]." If you will post that, we can get a better idea of how really egregious was CCPs EULA violation.

P.P.S. Threatening with lawyers is not something to be done lightly. The policy at every company I ever worked for was that if a client EVER used the "lawyer" word in a threatening manner, all further discussion with that client was to be handled by the legal department. That weeds out the posers extremely quickly.Blink

Here's to fire. Not the fast and furious kind that burns down shacks and shanties, but the slow, seductive kind that takes down pants and panties - Irish Toast

Macon Chalaise
VNM Biological Survey Corps
#28 - 2012-03-13 21:40:20 UTC
Macon Chalaise wrote:
Omega Flames wrote:
Macon Chalaise wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Mintrollo - you do realize that your making yourself look like a 3 year old right?


TBH, plenty of people who started or complained in a "boo hoo trebor spammed his campaign" thread look like a 3 year olds.

Mintrolio can't win the personality prize now no matter what happens.

The goofy and occasionally amusing all caps badposter persona is gone.

He indicates he wants to be taken seriously by talking out of character. Fair enough.

He indicates that we should take him extra seriously because he runs a multi-million dollar software company. (Relevance?)

Then he threatens CCP with lawyers...

He may need new lawyers if he thinks that the EULA is a legal obligation in anything like the same way as "killing people is illegal when it is not in the defense of self or others or ones property or others." (Yes, I live in Texas.)

The EULA is an agreement between CCP and the customer. It's THEIR EULA, mhmm.

The best choice, imo, is to NOT be so vigilant and so ready to be offended in the first place. If you feel badly and angry about this it is PURELY by YOUR choice. I just deleted the emails and moved on.

Another answer to this problem would be to report the spam if one feels it is such and let CCP deal with it. (They already did and said limited campaign spam is allowed.)

You received in game emails campaigning at election time. Who cares? As Malcanis said, reflecting thousands of years of the same sentiment, it must be nice that this is the most important thing in some people's lives that they have the time and inclination to be SO angry and SO upset about something that doesn't even qualify as a fart in a tornado.

Trebor sending a round or two of election campaign spam doesn't matter a rat's ass in the long run.

Why can't people save all this for something that actually matters to the game?

Lawyers? Really? For a minor EULA complaint? REALLY?Blink

minor EULA violation is still a EULA violation. The only reason CCP gets away with it is because they understand that it's simply not cost effective to sue them for when they violate their own EULA. A GM once forced me to edit certain words out of my bio. I contacted a lawyer in the USA and even thou I live extremely close to their Atlanta office it would still cost me a few hundred dollars to sue them for violating my freedom of speech rights. I might get that money back when I win the case but I simply don't have the cash to take that risk. The law is on my side but at the end of the day money talks more than civil law does.


More than a few game companies, including Blizzard and Bioware, censor and control what players say in chat, put in their forum posts and their character information such as bios and names. MMOs are not havens for free speech any more than movie theaters are.

I am not a lawyer so I am wondering: What are the areas in which this lawyer practices and what did they tell you was the basis for pursuing your suit?

P.S. A quote of what words they wanted you to remove should be perfectly permissible as long as you say no more than "this is the text in question: [INSERT TEXT HERE]." If you will post that, we can get a better idea of how really egregious was CCPs EULA violation.

P.P.S. Threatening with lawyers is not something to be done lightly. The policy at every company I ever worked for was that if a client EVER used the "lawyer" word in a threatening manner, all further discussion with that client was to be handled by the legal department. That weeds out the posers extremely quickly.Blink


Beuller...Beuller...Beuller...

Here's to fire. Not the fast and furious kind that burns down shacks and shanties, but the slow, seductive kind that takes down pants and panties - Irish Toast

Frying Doom
#29 - 2012-03-13 22:27:43 UTC
FOl2TY8 wrote:
roleplaying is gay


Its good to see such well expressed and obviously well thought out arguments from the members of Goonswarm. It really does answer the question of how someone like The Mittani actually made it onto the CSM in the first place.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-03-13 22:32:36 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
FOl2TY8 wrote:
roleplaying is gay


Its good to see such well expressed and obviously well thought out arguments from the members of Goonswarm. It really does answer the question of how someone like The Mittani actually made it onto the CSM in the first place.

we're all gay
Frying Doom
#31 - 2012-03-13 22:37:38 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:

we're all gay

I would have said sheep. You all seem to follow The Mittani so blindly. Some of your members don't really seem to to know what he stands for in the CSM, other than Null Sec and Goonswarm.

But it is so nice to hear Members of a CSM candidates Alliance speaking so freely about their ideas.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Carl Thunderthise
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-03-13 23:36:32 UTC
I'd like to know HOW Trebor collected the names of thousands of Eve characters without using some sort of bot program to hack the server. Which of course is against the EULA. I'm sure he didn't just visit every system in the game and write down who he saw...
Trebor Daehdoow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-03-14 00:34:41 UTC
Carl Thunderthise wrote:
I'd like to know HOW Trebor collected the names of thousands of Eve characters without using some sort of bot program to hack the server. Which of course is against the EULA. I'm sure he didn't just visit every system in the game and write down who he saw...

Sigh... you see, but you do not observe, my dear Carl.

I shall reveal the blindingly obvious method I used after the election. 100% EULA compliant, of course.

Private Citizen • CSM in recovery

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#34 - 2012-03-14 00:40:39 UTC
I am not a computer genius, nor am I someone who is into automatic gaming a.k.a. botting but even I can figure out how he got the names.

If you combine A+B in the right manner I am sure you come up with C.

It's not rocket science, you know.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-03-14 05:46:38 UTC
Carl Thunderthise wrote:
I'd like to know HOW Trebor collected the names of thousands of Eve characters without using some sort of bot program to hack the server. Which of course is against the EULA. I'm sure he didn't just visit every system in the game and write down who he saw...

eve-who.com for starters, various killboard's for another, your client has to gather char id's for the char pictures in your local chat/people and places search/various other ingame fucntions so maybe he figured out cache that info. There are tons of ways of finding people's names without doing an api scrape or hacking the server. Start using the brain God gave you and you could have guessed the 3 examples above on your own. I actually don't think he used eve-who actually cause I have char's on it that didn't get a mail from him.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-03-14 06:21:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Omega Flames
Macon Chalaise wrote:
More than a few game companies, including Blizzard and Bioware, censor and control what players say in chat, put in their forum posts and their character information such as bios and names. MMOs are not havens for free speech any more than movie theaters are

I am not a lawyer so I am wondering: What are the areas in which this lawyer practices and what did they tell you was the basis for pursuing your suit

P.S. A quote of what words they wanted you to remove should be perfectly permissible as long as you say no more than "this is the text in question: [INSERT TEXT HERE]." If you will post that, we can get a better idea of how really egregious was CCPs EULA violation

P.P.S. Threatening with lawyers is not something to be done lightly. The policy at every company I ever worked for was that if a client EVER used the "lawyer" word in a threatening manner, all further discussion with that client was to be handled by the legal department. That weeds out the posers extremely quickly.Blink

I can write up a EULA that says you aren't allowed to blink on sundays and no ice cream between the hours of 2pm and 3pm..how many people do you think are going to even read the EULA to know I put those 2 rules in it much less sue me over it? That's a bit extreme of an example but It's sorta the same with censoring certain words just because it's in a EULA doesn't mean it will hold up in court even if I agreed to the EULA. There is alot of leeway given to companies because they own the hardware/software and should get some right as to what gets communicated on it but at the same time I pay x dollars/ x timeframe (or rather the person I bought a plex from does in my case :P ) for access to that hardware/software. I can make an arguement that

1. freedom of speech still applies in a virtual world WHEN that virtual world is ran by a company located in a country that has freedom of speech. CCP owns an office in Atlanta, Ga so may easily be bound by USA laws too not just Icelandic ones. There are plenty of laws/bench rulings that would allow them to censor me if I was trying to be racist
2. If the words I'm using are not being used to degrade someone then they fall outside the realm of rule 2 in the TOS

I may win, i may not, but considering the case would realistically go all the way to the supreme court before being done with and I'm sure CCP will pay the money to go that far I would have to be willing to do the same. Obviously i contacted a lawyer that is more familiar with my kind of case and not something like tax laws

On the subject of what trebor did I only found the rule 1 in the TOS that talks about spamming and no mention anywhere in the TOS/EULA that allows exceptions for CSM candidates so unless I missed something the GM's gave a go ahead to a spamming that was previously (and currently actually) against the TOS. That is in effect CCP violating their own agreement with me.
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
#37 - 2012-03-14 08:13:35 UTC
well done forum warriors
this is where the real battles are fought, and everyone knows it

hail the victorious dead.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#38 - 2012-03-14 11:48:41 UTC
Omega Flames wrote:
On the subject of what trebor did I only found the rule 1 in the TOS that talks about spamming and no mention anywhere in the TOS/EULA that allows exceptions for CSM candidates so unless I missed something the GM's gave a go ahead to a spamming that was previously (and currently actually) against the TOS. That is in effect CCP violating their own agreement with me.


You could have read:

6: You will follow the instructions of authorized personnel while in the EVE Online game world or using the EVE Online web site.

Scroll back and see how a CCP authorized person tells you what the rules are in this case.

If you persist on using rules be so kind as to use all of them and not only the convenient ones.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-03-14 12:14:54 UTC
Why is it that everyone in this game is either a CEO or a software expert in something.


no one is a lonely neckbeard pretending to be what they are not


my thoughts and **** you OP never drop character

I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Omega Flames
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-03-14 18:16:33 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Omega Flames wrote:
On the subject of what trebor did I only found the rule 1 in the TOS that talks about spamming and no mention anywhere in the TOS/EULA that allows exceptions for CSM candidates so unless I missed something the GM's gave a go ahead to a spamming that was previously (and currently actually) against the TOS. That is in effect CCP violating their own agreement with me.


You could have read:

6: You will follow the instructions of authorized personnel while in the EVE Online game world or using the EVE Online web site.

Scroll back and see how a CCP authorized person tells you what the rules are in this case.

If you persist on using rules be so kind as to use all of them and not only the convenient ones.

1. said policy has already been addressed in the TOS so an agreement has already been reached in the legally binding document, doesn't matter what the "authorized personnel" say it is still a breach of the previous agreement.
2. put those instructions in a clearly defined area/reference and you might stand a chance of being able to hold that arguement up in court because no judge/jury is going to hold me bound to a random forum post made x years ago by a GM when that forum post isn't made easily accessible for me when I'm signing a legal document. No sane person is ever going to expect me to dig through millions (10's of millions? 100's of millions? does even CCP know how many forum posts there have been over the years?) of forum posts (99.999% of which have no bearing on whether I should agree to the legal document) to find all the "instructions of authorized personnel"
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