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Hiring Dust Mercs with Aurum = Game Over
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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-08 18:45:02 UTC
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#2 - 2012-03-08 18:49:23 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.



Yeah but since you pay to win by trading isk for plex for aurum everyone who can make enough isk to pay to win wont care. Which is everyone but you.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-03-08 18:50:34 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.



And you are mad because of.... ?
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-08 18:51:55 UTC
A large difference exists between something where there are multiple ways to obtain in game (isk) and that can be obtained in quantity more efficiently at the alliance level than by selling plex (moon goo) and something that somebody has to put up real $$$ to create (Aurum).
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-03-08 18:52:31 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.


This would be a problem IF you could only get Aurum by spending
rl cash, but that's not the case, so I dont what the problem is.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-03-08 18:56:07 UTC
Here we go AGAIN...

There is no problem.

/thread

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#7 - 2012-03-08 18:57:28 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.


This would be a problem IF you could only get Aurum by spending
rl cash, but that's not the case, so I dont what the problem is.

More expensive plex?

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-03-08 19:01:05 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.


Not really. Aurum can still be obtained with ISK (buy PLEX), and the "winning", or even just the advantage, is not guaranteed.

This is as much a microtranaction as can hiring PL by paying them PLEX to help you take a 0.0 system. Nothing guarantees you that they will actually do their job, or that you don't get outbid by someone else and PL turns on you. That is always a risk with mercs. It's better to have your own troops loyal to you because of more than their next paycheck.

The microtransactions people rage about are those that are "pay $, have advantage impossible to have with just plain effort". It's okay to pay to get a few PLEX, then buy a Machariel with them, since


  1. that made another player rich and
  2. someone who didn't pay a PLEX can still get a Machariel.


It's not OK to pay PLEX and get a Machariel for free (circumventing part A) and not OK to get an item not available to others who didnt pay plex (circumventing part B).

Paying mercs in DUST for their work using AUR is consistent with both of those points. It would just be inconvenient as hell to have to go through PLEX to do it, and PLEX prices will likely spike because of it. So... chill.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#9 - 2012-03-08 19:01:32 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.



The article that post is referring to click here doesn't seem to imply anything about Aurum as the main currency. Since contracts are involved, aurum may be used as payment (I'm speculating here), but more than likely ISK will be the biggest currency to flow through the contracts. I mean, how often do you see Eve Online mercs and pirate hunters being paid in Aurum compared to the vast majority that want raw ISK that is a very liquidable asset?

Adapt or Die
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#10 - 2012-03-08 19:02:05 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.



To make a tinfoil hat that stretches all the way from GD to MD takes some talent. But you did it. Congrats.

Mr Epeen Cool
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#11 - 2012-03-08 19:06:28 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.



OMFG do your homework.

AURUM is not xferable between games.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#12 - 2012-03-08 19:08:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
Nova Fox wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.



OMFG do your homework.

AURUM is not xferable between games.


I think he's referring to the Aurum Tokens that are posted on the contracts market.

EDIT:But they are limited in supply since they are from the gifts that CCP gave us.

Adapt or Die
Lexmana
#13 - 2012-03-08 19:12:24 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.


Pay to win is not the problem; we already have that with PLEX. The problem with MT (as implemented in NEX and other games) is that it injects items (or in-game currency) directly into the game bypassing the whole player driven economy. I don't see that problem with the Dust-link so far.

I am sorry but there will be no Jita riots.
Adunh Slavy
#14 - 2012-03-08 19:14:10 UTC
Note that there appears to be a misquote in the OP of that thread, so use some salt when reading, misunderstood it my self.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-03-08 19:32:52 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
Soulpirate wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.


This would be a problem IF you could only get Aurum by spending
rl cash, but that's not the case, so I dont what the problem is.

More expensive plex?

Isn't that a good thing? I like to get more isk for my PLEX.
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#16 - 2012-03-08 19:35:36 UTC
Soulpirate wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
Soulpirate wrote:
Jas Dor wrote:
Saw this thread over in market discussion: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78263&find=unread. I think we need to make it clear to CCP that if:
1. Dust Mercs are hired with Aurum and
2. Dust Mercs have anything to do with any other aspect of EvE

Then this is pay to win. If taking sov in 0.0 in any way requires or is aided by paying Dust Mercs Aurum then that is pay to win and imposing microtransactions on a scale that will make the Jita riots look small in comparison.


This would be a problem IF you could only get Aurum by spending
rl cash, but that's not the case, so I dont what the problem is.

More expensive plex?

Isn't that a good thing? I like to get more isk for my PLEX.

Good thing for those who buy plex with RL cash, very bad for those who buy plex with iskies.

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Lexmana
#17 - 2012-03-08 19:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Grey Azorria wrote:
Good thing for those who buy plex with RL cash, very bad for those who buy plex with iskies.

Isn't it nice then that the market will balance it all out.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#18 - 2012-03-08 20:03:58 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Then this is pay to win.
No.

What there would be is pay-to-provide-further-potential-for-equipping-to-overcome-differences-in-skill-which-might-provide-enough-advantages-to-win-but-isn't-guaranteed-to-do-so-and-which-might-not-actually-have-any-effect-even-when-they-win-because-the-EVE-side-takes-precedence-(and-all-of-which-can-be-had-without-actually-paying-cash-for-it).

…a slightly different thing than P2W
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
#19 - 2012-03-08 20:05:29 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
Good thing for those who buy plex with RL cash, very bad for those who buy plex with iskies.

Isn't it nice then that the market will balance it all out.

Yep, at a price that is fine for big 0.0 alliances but to high for normal people (who don't want to turn eve into a second job)

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.
Soulpirate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-03-08 20:10:17 UTC
Grey Azorria wrote:
Lexmana wrote:
Grey Azorria wrote:
Good thing for those who buy plex with RL cash, very bad for those who buy plex with iskies.

Isn't it nice then that the market will balance it all out.

Yep, at a price that is fine for big 0.0 alliances but to high for normal people (who don't want to turn eve into a second job)

I think there is an option where you can pay monthly.
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