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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Reinventing Miner-Roles, One Ship At A Time

Author
Rimase
#1 - 2012-03-08 13:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
This idea caters to the idea of where a combat fleet has different role-based players. Basically differentiation where Mining can have varying optimizations that correlate (skill-wise) to the playstyle you may already know e.g. a gun-shooter of sorts would also, alternatively, understand strip-mining more than any other else. It is a bridge-way to bring all sort of players into the field from different careers easier. The idea also encourages team-work, social consolidation, identifies new skills where eventually you would learn all for the Tech3 variation (Generalization variation) and reveals new market products for traders and manufacturers!

Besides everything, it's evolutionary and generally awesome. It's new, renew and yet some old brought to the front. We all mine the asteroid as per usual but ... it's different. Have alot of time? Go strip-miner or drone-miner. Don't have alot of time? Go Melee-miner. Maybe you want to support your industrial fleet? Go drone-miner. In the end the result is you get the materials, all the same.

This idea is inspired by the upcoming changes in balancing ships and their 'hieratic' categories, which is awesome.
(Image Link)

Three types of miners:
  1. Ranged Strip-mining that we all know already (lasers),
  2. introducing new up-close 'Mêlée-mining' (new grinders);
  3. and evolution in Drone-mining as we know it! (droners)

Working Individually (How one is different than the other)
Strip-miners work at average speed allowing for highest yield on each asteroid PER MINUTE. (Small drone bay).
Mêlée-miners work fastest, have biggest cargo capacity but lowest yield from each asteroid. (Small drone bay).
Drone-miners work slowest (not all miner drones) but competitively equal to Strip-miners (all miner drones) PER MINUTE, & are most well self-defended (Huge drone bay).
FYI: I could have this wrong but this is the general idea of differetiation between each miner-type.

Targeting the other miner's asteroid and harvest it stimulates disorder allowing for some sort of aggression similar to Wreckages.

Working Together (Fleet & new asteroid collision)
Working together within range, within same asteroid field, each of three types of miners work together. Mining speeds are promoted with the new asteroid collision break-ups. Fleet reinforced with enough drones collecting small pieces created by a new miner-type, which helps strip-miner's targeting by removing small debris so new miner-type can digest an asteroid quicker. Ultimately the result would be greater yield for everyone within shorter time-frames.
(Strip-miner helps Melee-miner helps Drone-miner helps Strip-miner on each same-target asteroid/comet/cloud. Repeat.)

Categorical Naming (Exhumer, Dozer, Sweeper, & Mining Barge)
  1. all strip-miner's identity: Exhumers
  2. all mêlée-miner's identity: Dozers
  3. all drone-miner's identity: Sweepers
  4. all Capital's identity: Mining Barges

Tech Variations (1 ° 2 3)
  • TECH 1 - STANDARDIZED / ECONOMIZED
  • Strip-miner [old Covetor]
    Mêlée-miner [a new Procurer]
    Drone-miner [a new Retriever]
    Generic miner (LIMITED EDITION) [a completely new ship (T3 hull)].

  • TECH ° - IMPROVED / FACTION / MILITIA
  • Strip-miner, an Amarr corporation about crystals. [old Hulk as variation, faction color]
    Mêlée-miner, a Caldari/Minmatar corporation about Boosters... [the new Skiff as variation, faction color]
    Drone-miner, a Gallente corporation about droning. [the new Mackinaw as variation, faction color]
    Generic miner, ORE corporation praising their selection of ships. [the completely new ship (T3 hull)]

  • TECH 2 - SPECIALIZED
  • > Self-defensive Strip-miner [the old Covetor as variation, colored]
    > Warp-secure Strip-miner [the old Covetor as variation, colored]
    > other Strip-miner [the old Covetor as variation, colored]

    > Self-defensive Mêlée-miner [the new Procurer as variation, colored]
    > Warp-secure Mêlée-miner [the new Procurer as variation, colored]
    > other Mêlée-miner [the new Procurer as variation, colored]

    > Self-defensive Drone-miner [the new Retriever as variation, colored]
    > Warp-secure Drone-miner [the new Retriever as variation, colored]
    > other Drone-miner [the new Retriever as variation, colored]

  • TECH 3 - GENERALIZED
  • > Strip-miner [a completely new ship, Subsystems]
    > Mêlée-miner [a completely new ship, Subsystems]
    > Drone-miner [a completely new ship, Subsystems]
    > All miner-types [the completely new ship, named "Rorqual", no Subsystems?]

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!

Rimase
#2 - 2012-03-08 13:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What happens to Capital Industrials?
They may stay the same if not revised Gang Link modules to cater the different miner-types of their fleet.

Old ships and New ships???
  • Covetor would remain.
  • Procurer would look different (Mêlée-chomping teeth-grinding with fat ass).
  • Retriever would look different (droner).

Mining lasers of old. Do they get any changes?
They're obsolete. I'd have them removed, finally.

What happens to re-identified ships?
Some TECH1 ships will have structural changes to accompanier their new roles. e.g. new Mêlée-miner Procurer will have chompy mechanisms, similar ore-processing animations with a huge ass contemporary storage to place their fast-intake of Ore.
Some TECH2 Mining Barges that we know would be reclaimed by corporations though variations of Hulk would remain TECH2. New variations of TECH1 ships are TECH2, and completely new TECH3 variations.

What about already-exisiting associated ship modules?
They'd all be organized and new ones will appear. The Strip-miner is a precision ranged harvester and their strip-miners, ice harvests and gas vacuums all work as the same 'ranged strip-miners'. Melee harvesters and Drone harvests would have their own 'melee-miner modules' and 'drone-miner drones'. It would be interesting to vacuum a gas cloud as a melee miner like a Blue Whale feed. Don't you think? Lol

What happens to skill pre-requisites?
  • New pre-requisite category 'Alternative Skill sufficient'.
  • Alternative skill pre-requisites would ideally be for TECH1-only.
  • Alternative skills are sufficient though have drawbacks.
  • 'Alternative Skill sufficient' is a stand-alone pre-requisite.
Not a new skill-set. This is an alternative to Primary, Secondary and Tertiary. Alternative are 'make-shift' skills where the character uses relevant knowledge of something else and applies that skill. TECH1 Strip-miners and Drone-miners alternatively require a related drone or gunnery skill(s) to be sufficient enough as equal to their priority skills, except performance of the equipment in-game is not equal to relevant skill-trained characters.

Could 'Alternative Skill sufficient' be used on other things?
To me it's something that can be a successful addition to the game by allowing players to play more roles other than their chosen career-path, and denying excuses of people not wanting to do corporate group activities of the 'mining' player-corporation.
There's in-game skills marketing, agent-missioning, combat and logistic warfaring, and others, all with a grounding 'TECH1' level about them, I hope. That TECH1 would be the door-opener for trying new careers with skills you already possess to save you from having to purchase the skill first and prevent waste precious gametime in just making a decision whether or not you want to go further.

What happened to the name "Mining Barge"?
Like the War Barge for DUST514, it is platform of systems and a housing for the specific purpose and purposeful people. Exhumer is a ship that harvests things in space and the Mining Barge houses those operations and materials!
  • The Rorqual we know would be re-identified as the "Mining Barge" in correlation.
  • "Rorqual" will be the generic T3 Exhumer.

Rebalancing EVE, One Ship At A Time (blog):
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!

Zombo Brian
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-03-08 15:21:21 UTC
sorry, but what exactly do you want?

make clear statements please, what is the difference between being a fast miner and having a high yield?
Rimase
#4 - 2012-03-08 15:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
One asteroid:

Fast 'melee-miner' eats that asteroid faster. Eats alllll faster, all comets and clouds faster. Melee-miner can yield greater than the other three, but is least efficient per asteroid. e.g. Ranged Strip-miners take longer to eat that asteroid but they get more out of it whereas close-range Melee-miners are quicker to eat that asteroid but they get less out of it.

Drone-miners vary but at full Miner Drone bay they can surpass both Strip-miner's and Melee-miner's at both speed and yield. How this works, I've not quite clarified in my own head yet....

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!

Rimase
#5 - 2012-03-08 15:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
Zombo Brian wrote:
sorry, but what exactly do you want?

Some continuation to what I think is quite ******* boring at this moment. Some revitalization in corporation activity, in the field of trade and fleeting as a miner of sorts.

It's just mining barges, a couple of capital ships and.. that's it at the moment. It's a reinvention that addresses a number of things including mining, manufacturing and EVE Online industry in general. At the same time incorporating additional new ideas of spreading our field of play to other in-game careers and highlighting something completely new in auto-synchronizing team-play producing fair results (additional two new things), which quite possibly could only be allowed in mining opposed to battling.
  • Continuation (new stuff)
  • Clarification (recent blog)
  • Socialization (encourage more fleeting)
  • Differentiation ("I'm speshul.")
  • Specialization (recent blog)
  • Adaptation (idea of 'Alternative Skill sufficiency')
  • Co-Ordination (idea of each different miner-player working fairly together, systematically)


This can be what you see in a battle fleet taking over systems asteroid belts, and you can imagine the beauty of it atrtacting additional alliance-member warriors to happily protect vessels.

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!

Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2012-03-08 16:24:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
I like the idea of it ... but you're doing it a bit wrong, because you're talking about lasers and ships all at once, and not being very clear about what is a change to ships or what is a change to the modules.

Slight fixes to make things clearer, and a bit easier for "why" do we need revamped mining.

1. DO NOT change asteroid compositions at all, based on what type of miner you're using. e.g. if it says there's 20k units of veld, you can always get 20k units.
2. add a new (useless) mined item -- gravel.
3. Mined ores are now 50-100% larger in size ... because you're pulling in gravel too. For example, Strip Miners on a hulk top out somewhere around 3k m3 per minute. that's 30k veld per minute (0.1 m3 per unit) ... with the gravel added in, you're only pulling in 15k-20k m3 of actual veldspar ore.


So, strip miners have the "worst" ratio of ore:gravel (say, 50:50 for numbers)
Standard mining lasers have the "best" ratio of ore:gravel (but due to limitations in how much they can mine per cycle, they're still slower than strip miners) (say 80/20 for numbers)
Drones are somewhere in between. (60/40)

No changes to what fits what (so strip miners go on barges, mining lasers on everything else, drones for whatever can fly them).

The whole idea of "applying the wrong skills to try making it work" is just bad -- so that's a flat out no. This isn't "digging a hole in your backyard" or "shooting a 9mm after a .22 pistol" type skills that anyone can relatively easily pick up ... but "digging a 2 sq mile hole in the ground with a 200 thousand tonne machine" or "(accurately) firing artillery" where you absolutely need the right skillset.


(more edits) also, your changing the names of things is also bad. Seriously, there's nothing about "Rorqual" that makes it sound like a badass miner ... but a "Hulk" tearing up an asteroid field...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Rimase
#7 - 2012-03-08 16:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase
Velicitia wrote:
ore:gravel
That's awesome!! Shocked



Yield Ratio (Useful:NonUseful) & Speed
  • Strip-miner (lasers) - 70:30, medium-worker.
  • Drone-miner (drones) - 90:10, slow-to-medium-worker.
  • new Melee-miner (-0.001 Km chompers) - 50:50, fast-worker.


What would be the non-useful produce of harvesting Ice and Gas, though?
The non-useful Gravel could be used for something by some Non-Player Corporations...
Standard mining lasers would be made obsolete. They kind of already are, really. I'd see the removed P.

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!

Rimase
#8 - 2012-04-12 20:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rimase