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Warning Forums are going to Explode. New Dev Blog on Skill Training and Ship Balance.

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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#141 - 2012-03-07 14:50:39 UTC
On a side note the module naming font had victories.

1 We are keeping heavy assault missile and launchers!
2 we got the truama missile renamed to scourge missiles
3 module metanaming back on the drawing board.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#142 - 2012-03-07 14:56:19 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
On a side note the module naming font had victories.

1 We are keeping heavy assault missile and launchers!
2 we got the truama missile renamed to scourge missiles
3 module metanaming back on the drawing board.


Damn, now my battle cry of "Welcome to the Trauma ward!" will have that much less sting. Still good news though

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#143 - 2012-03-07 14:57:00 UTC
Actually making capitals easier to fly by just 31 days is not such a big deal, also now you would hve to train battlecruiser to fly capitals too, so it sort of compensates.


if a lot of players suddenly can fly carriers and dreads it would be awesome because there would be a lot of players flying fail fit capitals doing stuff like soloing and such, more capitals to shoot at and kill.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#144 - 2012-03-07 15:19:35 UTC
Wth guys? -this is awesome

Many things in Eve are there since the beginning like tiers system and dmg formulas etc, those need overhauls that are inevitable if you like Eve and you want it to do another 10 years.
Time to stop dressing like the king that was your gran grandpa idol if you're 20 Yo, move on, go forward, evolve!

By setting new standards that will aloud a much better rebalance if needed in the future, more ships will/can be add easily and this changes will not only make more ships interesting to use but also for dev's a whole new opportunity horizon to implements new ship roles and classes.

Look at all these new features/old features revamp that are far more friendly or easier to use, it's awesome. Now scrubs with the good old rabble "I liked like it was in my time.... I don't want it to change" fair well, find a cave and go live there all winter we/me will not miss you.

Lol
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#145 - 2012-03-07 16:21:59 UTC
Seems to be 8 pages of anti-rage for rage that isn't there. In other circles that would be called brown nosing. Having said that, I got BC 5 from Learning skills I no longer have, so... whatever?

- You still need Racial Cruiser 5 for Tengu and Tengu blobs made CS obselete anyway.
- Aggro mechanics change made interdictions a cloak and camp weapon.
- Super Cap blobs made Capitals a suicide meat wall.

It's still a question of Zerg and who can throw down the bigger zerg. I love CS, they tank like a beast but even I know if they make CS the ship everyone fields, people will just bring bigger blobs to break tanks or as in the case of super cap blobs, nobody will fight.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#146 - 2012-03-07 16:23:58 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Seems to be 8 pages of anti-rage for rage that isn't there.
It's there. It's just that, for the first time in ages, the rage seems to largely be contained where it should be contained: in the actual feedback thread. P
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#147 - 2012-03-07 16:31:01 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Seems to be 8 pages of anti-rage for rage that isn't there. In other circles that would be called brown nosing. Having said that, I got BC 5 from Learning skills I no longer have, so... whatever?

- You still need Racial Cruiser 5 for Tengu and Tengu blobs made CS obselete anyway.
- Aggro mechanics change made interdictions a cloak and camp weapon.
- Super Cap blobs made Capitals a suicide meat wall.

It's still a question of Zerg and who can throw down the bigger zerg. I love CS, they tank like a beast but even I know if they make CS the ship everyone fields, people will just bring bigger blobs to break tanks or as in the case of super cap blobs, nobody will fight.


My velator blobs made your titans obsolete.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#148 - 2012-03-07 16:40:22 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Seems to be 8 pages of anti-rage for rage that isn't there. In other circles that would be called brown nosing. Having said that, I got BC 5 from Learning skills I no longer have, so... whatever?

- You still need Racial Cruiser 5 for Tengu and Tengu blobs made CS obselete anyway.
- Aggro mechanics change made interdictions a cloak and camp weapon.
- Super Cap blobs made Capitals a suicide meat wall.

It's still a question of Zerg and who can throw down the bigger zerg. I love CS, they tank like a beast but even I know if they make CS the ship everyone fields, people will just bring bigger blobs to break tanks or as in the case of super cap blobs, nobody will fight.


My velator blobs made your titans obsolete.


You are closer to the truth than you know. It has been done in the past. Blobbing a system out with Velators and 300K Industrials to lagg down super cap fleets.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#149 - 2012-03-07 16:42:09 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Seems to be 8 pages of anti-rage for rage that isn't there. In other circles that would be called brown nosing. Having said that, I got BC 5 from Learning skills I no longer have, so... whatever?

- You still need Racial Cruiser 5 for Tengu and Tengu blobs made CS obselete anyway.
- Aggro mechanics change made interdictions a cloak and camp weapon.
- Super Cap blobs made Capitals a suicide meat wall.

It's still a question of Zerg and who can throw down the bigger zerg. I love CS, they tank like a beast but even I know if they make CS the ship everyone fields, people will just bring bigger blobs to break tanks or as in the case of super cap blobs, nobody will fight.


My velator blobs made your titans obsolete.



[tount)
Fake. A rue titan pilot with links would pulverise your velator orbiting his guns at 1km and max speed.

Try again Lol
[/tount]
Callic Veratar
#150 - 2012-03-07 18:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Callic Veratar
From what I'm reading, HAC skills may change from this:

[racial] Cruiser V
    [racial] Frigate IV
Heavy Assault Ship I
    Assault Ships IV
        Engineering V
        Mechanic V
    Weapon Upgrades V
        Gunnery II
    Spaceship Command V

To this:

[racial] Cruiser V
Heavy Assault Ship I
    Weapon Upgrades V
        Gunner II
    Spaceship Command V

I don't need Battlecruiser trained at all to fly battleships at the moment. If they add the requirement for Battlecruiser IV to all battleships, either they have to give everyone with Battleship I Battlecruiser IV or remove the lower tiers as a requirement for a ship.

Prerequisites can be gated on injection alone, so I should still be able to train up the Battleship skills without having Battlecruiser or Destroyer.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#151 - 2012-03-07 19:01:46 UTC
Callic brings up an interesting point.

Ill counter with this. We're at a special place in Eve right now that if we where to add another tech to ship thats better or bigger or smaller to another existing similar class how are we going to handle that?

For example somone suggested a logistics tech 2 destroyer, would it be fair for FORCE current logi pilots to have that as a prerequesite? I would say yes its quite wrong to make thier trainig longer. On the flip side it can also kill a class, nobody would want to fly a class thats overly too convuleted to get to.

So I have to agree that having the tech 2s branch out from tech 1 core is good. What isnt good is that Engineering and Mechanics are not on the list of skills for HAC I :P Preserve the smaller classes requires supporting skills.

And why is my hair brown now....

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2012-03-07 20:01:24 UTC
Cyrus Deacon wrote:
Jesus christ... Is this the prelude to "press a button and something awesome should happen" ?

Decreasing capital train time is the stupidest ******* idea since WiS


Actually, caps are the end game for ships, though there are many end games in this game. I would gather that this is a financially motivated move by CCP since caps require substantial investment in the form of RMT/plex. Now that I think about it, it would probably be better if CCP just make cap pilot skills included as soon as an account is activated. No more training for caps. Null can bash itself senseless with caps. CCP can make buttloads more cash and so can their RMT pets.

I support this product and/or service!


As for BS's taking "a bit" longer to train.....WTF?!?

Don't ban me, bro!
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
#153 - 2012-03-07 20:25:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Azure Moonlight
I dont understand why people rather want to stick to the old ways, without EveMon or another program for planning your training you just went crazy. The new tree has a very smooth look to it and Im sure in the future players will see it as an improvement.

And for the decreased training time on capitals; why not? You still need all the support skills and the money to afford flying one. 2-3 weeks less training time for ONE SKILL wont be a game breaker.

I mean, either way, we are talking about changing a few days from one ship skill to another, THIS WONT CHANGE ANYTHING.
But a more logical and straight way to train for ships will change A LOT, espacially for new players.

I can just say BRING IT ON ! :)

Yay 10 years! :D
Zaaark Quasar
Doomheim
#154 - 2012-03-07 20:37:21 UTC
So I train for Titan and log in!

Nice!

There is a Titan in my hangar!

No.. Wait..?
Abyss Azizora
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2012-03-07 20:48:32 UTC
So far I love the proposed changes, the current system is crap with progression being all over the place, and I always found it annoying there was no racial dessy/BC skills. That's not the broken part, that just irked me.

Also the chance of having useful T1 ships other than rifters... do want.

Still I'll hold my applause or booing until they get up that info about the Amarr ship revamp, seeing as that's all I fly.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#156 - 2012-03-08 12:29:19 UTC
By the way, now that CCP Ytterbium has come back to the feedback thread and provided some Q&A, it's worth reiterating that this thing I wrote was proven accurate in terms of how they're removing and shuffling prereq skills around:
Tippia wrote:
Nighthawk:

Caldari Cruiser V (×5)
     Caldari Frigate IV (×2)
Command Ships I (×8)
     Battlecruisers V (×6)
     Warfare Link Specialist IV (×6)
          Leadership V (×1)
     Spaceship Command V (×1)
Heavy Assault Ship IV (×6)
     Assault Ships IV (×4)
          Engineering V (×1)
          Mechanic V (×1)
     Weapon Upgrades V (×2)
          Gunnery II (×1)

becomes…

Caldari Battlecruiser V (×6)
     Caldari Cruiser IV (×5)
          Caldari Frigate IV (×2)
Command Ships I (×6)
     Warfare Link Specialist IV (×6)
          Leadership V (×1)
     Spaceship Command V (×1)
The effect is this: all T2 ships will be easier and quicker to train for — specialising can be done sooner and for less cost; T1 subcaps beyond destroyers will be slightly slower and more expensive to train, but we're talking about less than a week per race. Specialisation is made easier; nerf-proofing and chasing the FOTM is made harder. All is as it should be. P
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2012-03-08 12:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Stormshadow
I support this item/service with totalhelldeathish passion as long there will be official reminder to everyone regarding "train this skill now to level 5 to get full racial benefits" before it is too late to do that.

Also free extra attribute remap would be in place if this happens sooner than years time.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
Kata Amentis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2012-03-08 12:53:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kata Amentis
Nova Fox wrote:

would it be fair for FORCE current logi pilots to have that as a prerequesite?


From memory, when they messed around with a few prereqs ages back, if they change the secondary requirements and you don't have them, but have already learnt the primary requirement you can still fly the ship without those secondary requirements learnt.

In other words, if they add in "battlecruiser skill" as a prereq of "battleship skill" and you already have "battleship skill" inserted/trained but have never got "battlecruiser skill" you can still use battleships.

From that I take it that boarding a ship only checks the primary prereqs and not the whole tree each time, probably the same with inserting subsequent skills in the tree etc. Which makes sense from a coding point of view.


So changes to the prereq tree shouldn't impact those who already have the primary skills and wont force any currently trained pilots to do anything.

Curiosity killed the Kata... ... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count.
CCP Goliath
C C P
C C P Alliance
#159 - 2012-03-08 12:55:21 UTC
Can we please keep the responses to this in the appropriate thread? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=77673

CCP Goliath | QA Director | EVE Illuminati | @CCP_Goliath
Emiko Luan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2012-03-08 13:04:58 UTC
Does anybody see that this implies tech2 capitals are coming soon? The cap landscape needs more options...

Easier cap training = more dead caps because of noob pilots. This is good.

+welcome to my world+ http://emikochan13.wordpress.com http://emikochan13.deviantart.com