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First time L4 runner - help me with my Drake

Author
Boz Wel
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2012-03-05 22:03:48 UTC
Noticed that just a minute ago E.E. after looking at the "new" tracking computers more closely. They have a falloff bonus now that's boosted along with the optimal range by the script - nifty. Forgive my module knowledge for being a few years out of date. P
Zanzil C
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2012-03-07 11:43:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zanzil C
Hello Wuxi

Got some questions regarding the fit you shared, which again I thank you for.

1) I really don't like cap boosters, because it's one more thing to watch out for and it's one more consumable to keep an eye on. Do you see a Large Shield Extender being a viable alternative, in the sense that the more shield available means less need for the Large Shield Booster running?

2) Rigs. Your recommendation was Large Core Def Safeguards. My question is, on which basis did you chose those rigs over the Def Field Extenders or the Def Field Purgers?

3) Closing, one general question that relates to (2) above. When you sit down with EFT and start putting together a ship, how do you actually go about it? How do you decide for eg. whether to fit 2 Gyro II and 3 Tracking Enhancers versus 3 Gyro II's and 2 Tracking Enhancers? Or, to complicate things even more, why not swap the 3 x Gyro IIs with 3 x Ballistic Control System IIs, which will -in theory- result in a dps boost with less tracking, resulting in pretty much the same damage output as the fit with the 3 Gyro's. (this may just be a naive example but it's just a random example)

What I'd like to understand (and this is something missing from EVE's new player tutorials) are the factors that affect your decisions. One thing I clearly understand is resistances; according to the rats' damage type I play around with the shield hardeners, but what about more complex ship subunits like the ones mentioned above? Is there a golden rule you follow and come up with the best fit available for each ship?

Thanks again all for their input.

Wuxi Wuxilla wrote:
[Maelstrom, PvE Lowskill]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
'Orion' Tracking CPU I, Optimal Range

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L

Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I
Large Core Defence Capacitor Safeguard I


Federation Navy Ogre x4
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2012-03-07 12:48:57 UTC
X-Large Shield Booster and Heavy Cap Booster are pretty much a must - Unless you have a Gist X-Large Shield Booster (and those are bloody expensive)
You don't need the Cap Booster that often, most times you can just burst tank without needing the extra cap, but they're extremly useful when you trigger/aggro too much or fly the harder missions.

How to choose between Tracking Enhancers and Dmg Mods is about what your ship (and the weapons) lack and how many low slots you have for this.
On a Maelstrom you lack range with Autocannons, as they are close range weapons and you generally lack damage, as you can't have ever enough of it.
So with my Artillery Build I use 4 Gyros as I don't need extra range and 1 TE - Why not 5 Gyros you might ask? That's because of stacking penalties. The more Dmg Mods you have on your ship, the less any extra dmg mod will add:

Modules Effect of nth module
1 100%
2 87%
3 57%
4 28%
5 10.5%
6 3%

As you see a fifth Gyro would only add 10.5% of its initial boni, a TE is much more useful.

With my AC Mael I chose 2 TEs to bolster my range - More range is more applied dps for close range weapons (less for longe range as the basis range puts most enemies into falloff if not optimal - The effects of a TE are much less useful there)
Now I only have 3 Gyros, but as the 4th only adds 28% of its bonus, it's still a good trade.

For BC <-> Gyro take a good look at the modules - One applies to Missile Launchers (the Mael doesn't have any) and the Gyros apply to Projectile Weapons.

The Rigs are in there as they give the most cap advantage out of the slot. Capacitor Control Circuits (CCC) add less flat cap (due to using a Cap Booster instead of Cap Rechargers), while the Core Defense Capacitor Saveguards save quite a bit cap (due to the high cap cost of the Shield Booster).
Shield Extender/Purger are for ships that tank with a passive tank. The Maelstrom depends on Shield Booster and those are independent from both the shield recharge rate and the maximum shield hp and thus doesn't use those rigs.

There are no definite rules for modules and rigs - None that I could come up with now, besides some more obvious ones - Not more than 4 Dmg modules, use the right Dmg modules (No Ballistic Controls for non-Missile Weapons)

You should download EFT, import your skills and play with fits - You can see the effect different modules have on each ship very easily there.
Boz Wel
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2012-03-07 16:24:15 UTC
One thing you want to keep in mind when fitting the ship is that each successive module such as Gyros, TEs, etc. suffers from diminishing returns. So, while you could fit 5 Gyros, that 5th one won't really be boosting your DPS by a lot, and so it may be more beneficial to use a TE instead. As to whether you go with 3/2 or 2/3 with Gyros/TEs, that largely depends on personal preference. The more missions you run in a given space, the more you will come to know the typical engagement ranges and the more you will understand what range you need from your mission ship. Just always remember to keep range in mind - EFT might tell you you're doing 1000 total DPS, but if you're at optimal+falloff range, the applied DPS is going to be about half that (before resists) assuming no tracking issues. If you can increase your optimal+falloff so that you're typically shooting at optimal+.5*falloff, your applied DPS will be significantly higher, even though EFT might say your total DPS is the same.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#45 - 2012-03-08 12:06:47 UTC
Your missile skills are incredibad. Like really really. If you want to go missiles (and have a proper opinion of them) you are looking at about a mill SP in missiles and support skills.

That said For low SP oyu want an ARTY mael, and you need to know HOW to fly it and you'll do fine in missions. They are rather attention intesive as you need to switch stuff out every now and then but you can do one easily without cap boosters. Just learn how to burst tank.

Important note, Mission battleships are pretty much all active tanked and its normally a very bad idea mixing active and passive tanking.

I can tank lv4s with just 2 hardeners, shield booster, shield amp and 3 CCC rigs. Mael is pretty easy to overtank at first. I use two tracking comp IIs to boost tracking on the arty and group the arty into 4 groups of 2 to help minimize lost dps. also you NEED T2 scout drones. Sentries are nice since they do damage soon as you drop them while heavies have rather long flight times to ships.

Ravens are easy, low attention and boring but without any tank bonus they need cap boosters and at LEAST 1 mill in missile skills. Have a look at the missile support skills, you are missing out on tons of dps.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=872354#post872354

Read the whole thing, its pretty good (my post best tho :P )

Seriously, with the missile skills you have you should not even be allowed into ANY missile ship.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Goran Konjich
Krompany
#46 - 2012-03-09 11:49:53 UTC
loki energon wrote:
its funny, ive used fits ive seen from folks here, from Battleclinic, fits ive gotten from friends. one thing ive learned, use what works.
ive fit and flown 15 or more different fits for the drake, just tweaking with it. the best part of Eve is the ability to choose from thousands of different mods to bend and twist any ship any way you like.
i expect nothing less from the troll gallery than to shoot down any idea thats not from the box they troll away in. i souldnt mix active and passive mods? why? they work great together. dont use faction mods to save a % on power grid or CPU? why not, i have the isk i can spend it the way i want. please remember Trolls of Uberness, not every player has all skills relating to all things at lvl5. and as for not using blingy ships just because you might get suicide ganked.....thats Eve right? lol you pays yer money, you takes yer chances.


i guess i wont post my nano-cargo expanded-salvaging-tractor-hurricane fit........


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I'm a diplomat. Sometimes i throw 425mm wide briefcases at enemy. Such is EVE.

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