Player Features and Ideas Discussion

In the case of the Golem, since it's primarily a torp fitted boat by most players, and since it can't really get over 60km kills with torps, then I would say a 60-65 km tractor range is good.
Perhaps you can make the tractor and salvager bonuses the same as the noctis and have them skill lvl based. So you can get the same stats with them as a noctis, but you have to train Marauders for each lvl. This means, someone that has Marauders lvl 1 isn't as specialized with that ship as someone with Marauders 5. Thus meaning the more you put in, the more you get out.



You missed something in this full post. Pirate bs's are better than Marauders because they're versatile. They can do pve and pvp and have much more versatility in the way they can be fitted. If you look at Marauder fits, generally the only difference is the cost of the modules put on them and a cap booster here for there, but for the most part, they're all the same general fit.

The players commenting for buffs to Marauders in this thread aren't using pirate bs's as an example because they're better at pve, they're using them as an example because they're more efficient at pve while also being fully capable of pvp, which Marauders are far from.

We're asking for the buffs because Marauders are an extremely focused ship that is not only limited is use, but is also limited in fitting options. This coupled with the fact that they're not even that good at what they were designed for due to certain issues is what most of us are complaining about.

When you have a ship that is specifically designed to do one thing, but it can hardly do the bare minimum, then it seriously needs addressed.. I mean, Marauders are supposed to be the ultimate pve ships, but they can't do anything above lvl 4 missions without a guaranteed ship loss, and they can barely perform lvl 4's due to massive flaws that are shine when ANY type of ewar is used from target painters to jammers.

So they don't need to be addressed because pirate bs's are better, they need addressed cause they suck at their only job when compared to just about anything.

Faction Battleships are meant to be more versatile, they dont need a nerf, but marauders definantly need to braught in line.
I have a few suggestions which will make them the god fathers of PvE as they are intended.



General:
-Increase CPU and Powergrid Output.
-Kronos & Paladin need an extra mid slot.
-Golem and Vargur need an extra low slot.
-Currently they have a damage/rof bonus; give them BOTH.
-Salvage Bonus

Specific:
-Change the Kronos and Paladins web bonus to a web RANG bonus (opposed to strength).
-Kronos needs a larger Drone bay (150m3) and a slight drone bonus (5% or something?)
-Paladin needs either a tracking bonus or optimal range bonus
-Vargur needs more speed or have a smaller mass


Another idea is to maybe give them the ability to fit a single command module (this would make them appealing to incursion fleets and also make them versatile mission boats)



IMO this would bring them in line with the faction battleships in terms of price and skill investment; Pirate ships would still outperform them in PvP, but marauders would outperform in missions (as they should) and do just as well as a pirate BS in an incursion.

Good guys and bad guys?

Fact:

There are way better ships for running missions faster and more efficinet than marauders

This would be as god as a faction ship requiring no training but having the same mining amount as an Exhumer

I would start crying if i ever trained marauder, just to see a pilot in a machariel doing missions way faster and requiring much less skill and almost the same amount of money

Marauders need fixes to kill npcs faster, or at the very least bigger salvaging bonuses (adding maybe salvaging success probability and more tractor beam range)

Ships specialized in a way like marauders cant have more versatile ships beating them in every possbible way there is

Is it even possible for them to do npc only ewar immunity...

I was going to read this thread to see if my idea had already been posted, but gave up after the first few pages.

So here's my thought:

Given the in-game description of the Marauder, the intended role as a dedicated class of PVE ship, AND it's lackluster performance as a mission-runner compared to faction BS, why not modify the Marauder class so that it is more well-suited for a different class of PVE; Exploration.

Frankly, with the rep bonus and free high slots, the class already seems to be leaning in this direction. Not having done a lot of exploration myself, the two main problems I suspect there are with this is that the Marauder class does not have bonuses to the exploration modules (analyzer/hacker/salvager), and that there are not many scannable sites that have a combat challenge appropriate to the Marauder capabilities.

The first problem could easily be solved by removing the tractor beam bonus in favor of a bonus to the exploration modules (perhaps in pairs based on race).

The second problem would probably require new content from CCP, but I may also be misjudging this problem since I do not do a lot of exploration myself.

Well, this would partially tie into what I was stating with making these ships more pve friendly and not just for lvl 4 missions.

The way it seems to me, Marauders were designed to be the pinnacle of pve ships, yet their effectiveness is limited purely to lvl 4 missions. They're not good for anything less, and they're not good for anything more. Yet, even though t2 ships are designed to be dedicated to a specific task and accel at that task, Marauders fall short in that several other ships (not just pirate bs's) out perform them in every form of pve apart from lvl 4 missions (however, they sometimes still outperform in lvl 4's as well) but are also capable of pvp. Yes, t1 ships, pirate, t3, and faction ships are designed to be versatile. However, their versatility is what gives them effectiveness, but they should never be able to outperform a t2 ship at that specific t2's primary function. So no versatile ship (t1, pirate, faction, t3) should every outperform a t2. When compared to an interceptor, the interceptor should always perform better, when compared to a logistics, the logistics should always perform better.
This is true in most cases, however, when it comes to Marauders, they're outperformed not only by other t2's in pve, but they are also outperformed by t3's, pirates, factions, and some t1's.

When compared in lvl 4 missions, the Marauders perform better, however, this is limited to Gallente and Minmatar missions, and perhaps some Amarr. However, when compared in Caldari missions, and some Amarr missions, other ships will outperform Marauders due to Marauders massive weaknesses to ewar.

I personally have never seen someone offer to bring a Marauder into an incursion because of all their limitations. Of all the ships in Eve, Marauders should be the only ships in Eve capable of soloing a lvl 5 mission, however, I don't know that I'd even bring a Marauder into a fleet lvl 5 mission group due to its limitations.

Like I've already stated, I believe that npc ewar immunity would solve this problem significantly.

However, there are some other changes that would help as well.

1) Change support bonuses (such at tp bonus and web bonus) so that they become effective at the ranges the ship is designed to work at, and not to simply buff the device meant to support. This would help Marauder dps application toward anything in their range, where having the current buffs is nice, it limits Marauder damage application to an even smaller window.

2) Marauders without a support bonus like tp or web, need to be given a bonus related to better damage application.

3) Most pilots fly Marauders with a buffer tank, limiting the amount of times they use their shield booster or armor rep. This is generally the only good way to fit a Marauder, and someone flying a cap stable active tank will be laughed at. So, to better suit these ships for this, instead of giving them a boost or rep amount per lvl, give them a resistance buff per lvl. This would also give players a reason to actually train Marauders lvl 5.


In general, I think my 4 suggestions for Marauder fixes to become pve power houses like they're supposed to be, would help significantly instead of their effectiveness being limited to lvl 4 Gallente missions.

P.S. I traded my Golem straight up for a Tengu, even though I had more isk into the Golem. I had started Caldari missions and the Golem couldn't cut it. So far, the Tengu has outperformed it in every aspect of lvl 4 Caldari missions. This shouldn't be happening. And no, it's not an issue with the Tengu being too powerful, it's an issue with the Golem being too weak.

Having flown the Golem, it is quite difficult to fit it cap stable. Your mid slots need to be dedicated to tank and target painters, your rigs must be dedicated to t2 range rigs, and you only have 4 mids for damage mods.

When in a golem 2 target painters are A MUST. Without at least two, you're waisting a lot of effective dps. Some players that build expensive fits will even go as far as fitting 3 target painters, which is pretty much max possible dps, even against frigs, but it is quite difficult to do without a lot of isk investment into your tank.
Unlike other Marauders though, which can live without the use of their support bonus, the Golem has to use the target painters. There's no getting around it. So that's another module that we have decreasing our tank and increasing our cap use. So Golems are very limited on their fitting options. If you look at several different fits, most of the time the only differences are whether it has 2 or 3 target painters, if it has a cap booster, and whether it has faction/dedspace mods. The shield booster is pretty much always a ded space mod of some kind, cause it's almost impossible to build a good tank without them.

One thing that would be nice for the golem to have is the ability to paint targets before it locks them. This way you could increase the target's sig, thus allowing you to lock the target faster.

Marauders need a smaller signature radius, I got just the thing:

Translation:

• Reduce signature radius by 20%
• Reduce Mass by 10%
• Add 12.5% damage reistance for hull, and 6.25% damage resistance for armor

This can help solve three problems at once: signature radius, tank, and agility.

I don't think she meant Faction as in Navy. I think she just meant (belongs to two empires).

As a VARGUR pilot myself I think the ship is fine.
In my experience, most of the time, the outfitting people want on that ship isn't

This thread does signifies that people are looking forward to the next t2 BS, with a different role than the black ops or marauder.
Just read through all the posts to see the iteration of differences/additions towards this next BS role class.